Does reducing damage with a displayed Tower Shield count as playing Tower Shield?

[stevenjackson121]

I just started using Angban in Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild, and I'm a bit confused about Tower Shield, which is a basic armor from his class deck. I want to know what the community consensus (or word of devs) is before I bring him to tables where I could see either of the following two claims being disputed:

1. It counts as playing Tower Shield, therefore it works with Angban's Power, meaning 3 ([ ] 5) reduction on all incoming damage as long as its displayed -- this seems stupidly strong for a basic card comboed with a base character power, and without advance agreement may be likely to be shot down at the table by a GM (Although it does make checks harder by 1d4 while displayed)

2. It does not count as playing Tower Shield, therefore you can play an armor from your hand to reduce damage which has already been reduced by Tower Shield -- this also seems very strong, but probably weaker than #1.

I'm inclined to think that it counts as playing the card based on the Wrath of the Righteous rules on Playing Cards. It feels that one of the conditions is certainly met.

* If you argue the damage reduction results from using a power on that card by [...] displaying it then that means you "played an armor to reduce damage dealt to you."
* If you argue the damage reduction results from activating a power on a displayed card then that means you "played an armor to reduce damage dealt to you."
* If you argue the damage reduction results from performing another action specified by that [displayed] card then that means you "played an armor to reduce damage dealt to you."

I would find it very hard to defend the argument that the damage reduction is not a result of any of these three things, which leads me personally to believe that the answer is #1:
Reducing Damage with a displayed Tower Shield counts as playing tower shield, and it works with Angban's power

Please let me know if you interpret it differently, and especially if you've seen it interpreted differently at a Pathfinder Society Adventure Card Guild game.

References:

Angban_Character_Card wrote:

When you play an armor to reduce damage dealt to you, reduce it by an additional 1 ([ ] 3)

Tower_Shield wrote:

At the start of any turn, display this card. While displayed, all damage dealt to you is reduced by 2, and the difficulty of your checks to defeat is increased by 1d8, or by 1d4 if proficient with heavy armors.

Wrath_of_the_Righteous_Rulebook wrote:

Playing a card means using a power on that card by revealing, displaying, discarding, recharging, burying, or banishing that card or by performing another action specified by that card. Activating a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.

[Hawkmoon269]

You play the Tower Shield when your display it. Once it is displayed, you do not have to do anything to activate it,v you just gain the benefit from it. Therefore, when it actually reduces damage, you are not playing it.

1. Are you performing an action with Tower Shield when it reduces damage? No, it is already displayed.
2. Are you activating the power on Tower Shield when it reduces damage? No, it is already active. See this comment.

If the Tower Shield said "you may reduce damage" then you would have to choose to activate it. But, just like you can't choose to not have the difficulty of your checks increased while it is displayed, you also can't choose to not have it reduce damage. Therefore it requires no activation. Therefore you are not playing it at that point.

[stevenjackson121]

Thanks for the reply Hawkmoon. I know you have a much higher degree of familiarity with and knowledge of this game than me, so I do not doubt your conclusion. To help enhance my own understanding however, I hope you can help clarify the correct interpretation of the last rule that I don't believe your answer (or linked url) touched on:

Quote:

[...] performing another action required by that card

Hawkmoon269 wrote:

You play the Tower Shield when your display it. Once it is displayed, you do not have to do anything to activate it,v you just gain the benefit from it. Therefore, when it actually reduces damage, you are not playing it.

1. Are you performing an action with Tower Shield when it reduces damage? No, it is already displayed.
2. Are you activating the power on Tower Shield when it reduces damage? No, it is already active. See this comment.

If the Tower Shield said "you may reduce damage" then you would have to choose to activate it. But, just like you can't choose to not have the difficulty of your checks increased while it is displayed, you also can't choose to not have it reduce damage. Therefore it requires no activation. Therefore you are not playing it at that point.

I agree with both points 1 and 2. I mostly included them for a complete listing of the (potentially) applicable rules. I probably should have clarified that of the listed options, my reading of the rules and card would lead me to believe that I am

Wrath_of_the_Righteous_Rulebook wrote:

performing another action specified by that card

when I reduce damage received.

Some rules regarding what "actions" are:
Under the heading Playing Cards

Quote:

Any paragraph in the power section of a boon that doesn't involve playing the card for a particular effect is not in itself a power-it's a mandatory action you must take.

Under the heading Attempting a Check

Quote:

Attempting a check requires several actions that are explained below [...]

It's clear from the first quote actions are not synonymous with powers or playing a card, in fact things you do which don't involve playing the card don't count as powers but do count as an action.

It's clear from the second quote that "action" is a broadly used word in PACG. The first quote defines some sufficient conditions for a piece of text to be considered an action, but it's clear it is not establishing necessary conditions for a piece of text to be considered an action (otherwise the things from the second quote cannot be actions)

This broad definition in the rulebook lead me to believe that the effects of the Tower Shield (damage reduction as well as increased difficulty) would naturally be interpreted as "performing an action specified by [Tower Shield]."

Why is this not the case? (I understand the linked question dealt with "activation" but there is not activation here, merely performing a specified effect--potentially action)

EDIT -- Potential Answer
Is it because of the passive voice that it is not considered an action?
Would it be correct for me to assume that:

Active voice counts as Action

Quote:

While displayed, reduce all damage dealt to you by 2 and increase the difficulty of all checks by 1d8, or 1d4 if proficient with heavy armors

Passive voice does not count as Action

Quote:

While displayed, all damage dealt to you is reduced by 2, and the difficulty of your checks to defeat is increased by 1d8, or by 1d4 if proficient with heavy armors.

EDIT 2 --

Actually now I'm even more confused after fully reading the linked thread

Vic Wertz wrote:

The phrase "performing another action specified by that card" was put there specifically to make triggering powers on displayed cards also count as playing them. The card is correct, but that phrase in the rulebook could use some extra explanation.

According to the rulebook, actions are only specifically defined to include things which are not powers, and yet this quote says the rule about actions was intended to apply to powers.

If powers are actions, and non-power text are defined to be actions as well, then it seems to me that "action" covers just about anything a card tells you to do.

[elcoderdude]

+1 to Hawkmoon, who is exactly right, as usual.

@Steven Jackson -- you are right that "action" is not univocal in PACG. That's perhaps inevitable with as useful a term as "action".

In this particular case, it is pretty clear what an action is, and is not. What you need is the current rulebook, which is governing:

MM Rulebook pg 8 wrote:

Playing a card means using a power on that card by performing an action with that card that is specified by the card itself. Choosing to activate a power on a displayed card also counts as playing it.

This clears up your difficulty -- here "action" means something you physically do with the card. Also this shows Hawkmoon is correct that if you don't choose to use a power on a displayed card, you are not playing the card, even if you benefit (or suffer) from a power on the displayed card.

(The cited rule also demonstrates why using a power on a character card or a role card isn't playing the character card or role card -- these cards are not displayed, and you don't physically do anything with the cards when you use their powers.)

[stevenjackson121]

Hawkmoon and ElcoderDude, thanks for taking the time to respond and educate me. I apologize for not reading the most current rulebook before asking a question governing Organized Play.

The most recent rules make it quite clear that you are not playing Tower Shield when you reduce damage with it, so Angban's power does not work to enhance it, but you would be able to play another armor to reduce damage further.