| Warior4356 |
While shopping around for improved familiar I noticed this little gem. Ratlings have great spell like abilities and decent stats but one extremely confusing ability that everyone I talk to seems to have a different interpretation of.
Scroll Use (Ex)
A ratling can cast spells from any magic scroll as if it had the spell on its spell list.
Now there are two ways to use a scroll, with and without UMD. Knowing a spell gives no benefit to the UMD version so I assume it is talking about the without version but here it is to be comprehensive.
Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check. This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.
The other option is that it is talking about the way casters, (wizards, clerics, sorcerers etc) use scrolls.
Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
- The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his class.)
- The user must have the spell on her class list.
- The user must have the requisite ability score.
- If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a scroll mishap. A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers. Activating a scroll is a standard action (or the spell’s casting time, whichever is longer) and it provokes attacks of opportunity exactly as casting a spell does. If the caster level check fails but no mishap occurs, the scroll is not expended.
Now of the four requirements listed, having the spell be the right type and be on the casters class list are met by the Ratling's ability under almost any interpretation.
Issues arise on points three and four however. Ratlings have SLA's Ratlings are not spell casters. This means it lacks a caster level. I will go over the possible arguments for each point I have heard in turn.
For having the required ability score:
First we must ascertain what sort of ability score a scroll requires. There are three possibilities.
1. That it is the same ability score as the caster who made the spell. This creates the issue of sorcerers not being able to use wizard spells, as well the loot generator does not determine who made it just divine/arcane so this is unlikely in my mind.
2. When looking at a spell you may use any ability score available to the spell. For example burning hands can be used by sorcerers wizards and many others, meaning at minimum it can be cast on intelligence or charisma. On the other hand summon nature's ally is druid, ranger, and shaman only. All of them cast off of wisdom. So under this interpretation it must be cast using wisdom.
3. You use your casting attribute when using a spell completion item. So whatever the item uses casts off of that is what they use when activating it. I don't see a lot of evidence for this version but it is a possible interpretation within the RAW.
Determining which of these scenario's apply to a ratling is important for what it can and can not use without having to use UMD to emulate an ability score or be boosted with a magic item or buff spell first.
For having the appropriate caster level:
There similarly are a number of possible interpretations on this issue, as a ratling lacks spell casting levels. This is a fairly unique situation because I could not find a single other instance of knowing a spell but lacking a caster level.
- 1. Use its spell like ability caster levels for magic item usage. This is an easy answer but there is no support in the rules for activating magic items with spell like ability caster levels.
2. Consider it to have a caster level of 0 as none is listed. This is possible but would make the ability it has require a caster level roll for even 0th level scrolls. I don't think its intended.
3. Use its hit dice to determine the caster level, while the universal monster rules do not state this under spell casting it does say under spell like abilities.
If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature’s Hit Dice.
This suggests you could find the unknown caster level this way.
If you have additional material that can bring clarity to this ability it would be much appreciated if you post it. Any discussion on why it should be one way or the other is also appreciated. Thank you for taking the time to read this large post, I hope this can be resolved quickly.
| Dr Styx |
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; concentration +7)
Constant—detect magic, read magic, speak with animals (rodents only), spider climb, tongues
3/day—cause fear (DC 12), dimension door, invisibility (self only)
1/day—summon swarm (rat swarm only)
1/week—commune (only when serving as a familiar; 6 questions, CL 12th)
Scroll Use (Ex)
A ratling can cast spells from any magic scroll as if it had the spell on its spell list.
A Ratling has a CL (6th) and 10 spells on its spell list, evan before it takes Levels in a casters class.
Also note that when it casts Commune its CL incenses to 12th. You could put forward an argument that the Scroll Use (Ex) ability would act the same, that its abilities would be increased to what ever it needs them to be just for using the scroll.| Warior4356 |
I see what you are going for, but unfortunately spells known and spell like abilities are different things. Further, it specifically states in the universal monster rules that:
For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature’s caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name.
I don't see a very strong argument here, but I would love to hear more evidence.
Something someone else brought up that is worth considering. The wording of the ratling's ablity is suspiciously similar to the wording in the first part of using UMD for a scroll.
Compare:
Scroll Use (Ex)
A ratling can cast spells from any magic scroll as if it had the spell on its spell list.
To:
Use a Scroll: Normally, to cast a spell from a scroll, you must have the scroll’s spell on your class spell list. Use Magic Device allows you to use a scroll as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. The DC is equal to 20 + the caster level of the spell you are trying to cast from the scroll. In addition, casting a spell from a scroll requires a minimum score (10 + spell level) in the appropriate ability. If you don’t have a sufficient score in that ability, you must emulate the ability score with a separate Use Magic Device check. This use of the skill also applies to other spell completion magic items.
This seggusts maybe ratlings use the UMD method, but get to skip the first check. It's a nice simple answer for sure, though it begs the question of ablity scores still.