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Vanykrye's got it mostly right: We're in Europe right now, then in August and September we should wrap up SHiro's home-brew campaign, so I'll start running Shattered Star Ocrober-ish.
However:
(1) Hi does not want to return to gaming, so he's out.
(2) Lara Croft guy is part of the regular Sunday gaming group, so he's in.
(3) Since I don't want to run another GMNPC, I invited Impus Minor to round out the foursome and he's accepted for now. We'll see how he feels when October rolls along.
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Session 56: The Sadness of the Derro Played 01-Aug-2019
(1) You don't have time to develop your own homebrew world.
(2) You don't have the inclination to develop your own homebrew world.
(3) You want to use it to get ideas for your own homebrew.
In short, if you're running the AP, it's because you don't want to write up your own adventure.
Now, let's take a look at Mun's house. Unless your PCs are rather imaginative and come in using Dimension Door or Gaseous Form or whatnot, they're going to end up on the ground floor fighting the hollow one and the alchemical golem. Since the golem uses the lift, the PCs will most likely investigate it, and will most likely find the elevator down. There, they will find a host of derros that they need to wipe out. At which point the AP conveniently provides a pathway to the Darklands that has nothing whatsoever to do with the AP!!! I mean, seriously. It is the absolute, obvious path any reasonable group of gamers would take. And the AP's approach to that path is, "It is quite possible that the PCs may wish to descend further, either through a sense of adventure or an assumption that further clues await below...A side trek into the Darklands is no casual thing, however, and the arduous journey should be enough to persuade the players they are on the wrong path..."
In short, "Sorry, GM, but you're going to have to homebrew up a multi-session trip into the Darklands with encounters and NPCs just balanced enough to discourage the PCs without killing any of them."
Having that kind of extra workload dumped in my lap is not why I buy APs. Please give me SOME reason to discourage the PCs from going there, instead of just, "Oh, if they go there you're in homebrew city. Good luck with that."
Grr...
Other than that little fiasco, it was a short and brutal session.
Cassomir, Day 3: As the party recovered from their fight with the derro alchemists, Helden suddenly felt the effects of the poison he'd been injected with. He called out to Hans, who quickly determined that Helden had shaken off the poison after the first damage to his Dexterity, and a quick Lesser Restoration fixed that. There was only one door to go through, which led to a short hallway leading to another door. (A favorite joke among my players in Rise of the Runelords was that underground dungeon contractors make a killing selling excessive doors to unwitting clients.) Helden listened at the door, and a natural 20 on his Perception roll let him hear the derro stirring about beyond the door. Many, many derro. Blackwarm had a solution: Cloudkill.
Yep. Having a necromancer in the party is bad for mook morale.
So Neirida threw open the door, rolled a natural 20 on her Perception (apparently these derro were just too frigging obvious for words), saw the derro rogues and hence was neither flat-footed nor subject to sneak attack damage, and just shrugged as a dozen arrows clattered off her protective spells. Two managed to do trivial damage to her, but the poison had no effect. Blackwarm's Cloudkill pretty much wiped out everyone except the derro rogues, and the only slight amusement was when Blackwarm couldn't dispel his own Cloudkill, so Hans had to dispel it for him. The mop-up of the derro rogues was only notable because Hans and Blackwarm sat there trying to use crossbows, and managed not to hit their own party members with them. (Blackwarm even hit a couple of the rogues with Acid Splashes, just to make himself feel useful.)
One rogue got one hit on Blackwarm, who will soon find out whether or not he is poisoned.
We started late and ended early, because it's been a loooong time since we played.
Unfortunately, the counter-argument is complaints about railroading. Finding the happy balance is difficult.
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^Sounds like in some cases you get the worst of both worlds -- you're mostly kept on a single track, but then you come to a switch that is by default thrown the wrong way onto a spur that has a derailment terminus in short order.
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Unfortunately, the counter-argument is complaints about railroading. Finding the happy balance is difficult.
Not to sound like a broken record, but Rise of the Runelords did it beautifully. There was a side tunnel, but it was only big enough for Small creatures and was obviously only used by the lizard kin, who were similarly obviously unrelated to the main plotline. In Curse of the Crimson Throne, there are orcs near Scarwall, and players could run off on an orc-hunting expedition, but it's clearly not part of the main plot.
"Oh my goodness! Mr. Mun has been skinned and a chunk of his brain has been removed to create this abomination! What could have done something so atrocious? Oh, look! Derro!" is exactly what UnArcaneElection says: A big flashing neon arrow pointing in the wrong direction.
There's railroading, and then there's, "Don't point the PCs in an obviously-wrong direction and then don't develop that part of the book."
A clever-but-useless side quest is always lots of fun, as the players eventually figure out, "Oh, carp! We got it wrong!"
But a ham-handed, "Oh, we just pointed 'em at a side quest. Use the campaign settings and your imagination to make it interesting," is not, in my opinion, a forgivable approach.
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Of course there is always the cliched "deadman switch" trap where when the most important Derro dies, the passage to the Underdark collapses and there is no effective way to continue down that path. Or you could also leave an obvious note stating the Derro were hired to do this by the primary antagonist.
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*SIGH*.
Slumber Hex.
Just one of those abilities that should never have been added to the game.
"Oh, a BBEG? I'll drop a Slumber Hex on him/her just in case it works!"
Yep. Twain got Slumber Hexed, failed her save, and the "climactic" battle wasn't.
So yeah, Hold Person or Baleful Polymorph can wreck fights, but they're not spells you can spam, and Hold Person you get a new save on each round.
Slumber Hex makes me sad...
It can only be cast against a specific foe once a day. So if you cast it "just in case" but it fails? Then it was a waste of an action. It's akin to casting Disintegrate against a foe.
It can only be cast against a specific foe once a day. So if you cast it "just in case" but it fails? Then it was a waste of an action. It's akin to casting Disintegrate against a foe.
Except that you're allowed to cast Disintegrate against every single foe you ever encounter because there's no spell limit, and instead of hoping that you do enough damage to disintegrate them, you automatically "win", period, no ifs, ands, or buts.
It's an at-will ability that automatically removes any creature capable of sleeping from the fight if they make a single bad die roll.
Being able to spam an auto-win save or suck is WAY better than Disintegrate.
Would you allow an at-will Hold Monster? Because that's what the Slumber Hex should be compared to. And honestly, since you don't get a new save every round, I think Slumber Hex is more powerful.
The fact that you only get to do it once per opponent and there are some creature types that are immune doesn't help a heck of a lot.
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Session 57: Sleepy Crawly Badness Played 13-Aug-2019
MY mistakes, however, were pretty massive:
- I was tired of printing out stat blocks for every monster, then recycling the papers at the end of every fight. So I started loading the monsters into a portfolio on Hero Labs on my iPad. Seemed like a great idea, since not only would I be able to save paper, but I'd be able to apply buffs and debuffs as necessary, ensuring my critters were all kept up-to-date. Unfortunately, I hadn't realized two things:
(1) Hero Labs SUCKS at tracking DR and resistances; you have to look them up
(2) Even worse, Hero Labs shows only the GROUND movement for creatures. So yes, my hellwasp swarms were more pathetic than terrifying with their massive 5' movement speed. It was… sadness.
- I gave Hans the Slumber Hex, since everyone said that was the right one to take. As I've tiraded multiple times, an at-will save-or-suck that removes creatures from combats entirely if they fail their saves is just plain broken, as evidenced by the number of boss fights in this AP alone that have been, "Hans casts Slumber Hex. The BBEG falls asleep. You're done." It's not fun as a GM nor as a player, but since it's well-established in the campaign now, it would be even worse to just have Hans stop using it. Continuity trumps broken things, but Slumber Hex is broken.
To me, the most interesting part of the evening was the question, "Does Cloudkill automatically kill swarms?" There's a long discussion about it here, but it pretty much boils down to, "By the spirit of RAW, no, it doesn't, but creatures take 1.5x CON damage," so I rolled with that.
Anyway, it was a long session, but mostly combat so it's not as hard to write up.
Cassomir, Day 3: Looking over the dead derro slowly drifting and plummeting into the watery pit below, the party decided that before they attempted a trip into the Darklands, they'd search the rest of the house in case they could find any clues there. Or, if a miracle occurred, even perhaps Mr. Mun. They went back up the elevator to the lower surgery, where they once again examined the sickly yellow mass of protoplasm in the glass enclosure. Blackwarm, being a curious sort, used his necromantic Life Sight to determine whether or not the mass was alive. It was! This garnered a new Knowledge roll for him, and he realized that he was staring at an ochre jelly, a creature frequently used in alchemical experiments involving dissolving flesh, since the jellies' acid was remarkably specific in what it dissolved. For a moment, Blackwarm considered releasing it so he could capture some of it and take it with him, but Neirida and Helden quickly dissuaded him of the idea.
Sighing, they took the elevator once again to the study surgery, then simply walked up the steps to Mun's study proper, where they encountered an enraged Mun, spewing vitriol and attacking them. Even though he hit Helden with inhuman force, the party wanted to be sure they weren't committing murder (since they'd been sent there by, y'know, a paladin and all). Hans hit Mun with a Slumber Hex and said that he wasn't human, and Blackwarm used Life Sight to confirm that he was a construct, or at least neither alive nor dead. This allowed Neirida and Helden to unleash their fury on him, but even with the advantage of flanking and magic weapons he did significant damage with his fists before finally succumbing. Hans channeled once and Neirida had to drink a few potions, but eventually she and Helden were brought back up to healthy.
As she was healing up, Neirida turned to Hans and asked, "Hey, if you're the smart one, why haven't you figured out where Mun is? Don't you have a spell or something?"
Hans admitted that he had two excellent spells prepared: Mun was a prominent-enough figure that the Legend Lore spell he'd received as part of his bonding with a Lore spirit that morning would probably work. Unfortunately, it would probably take around half an hour to cast, and Hans wasn't carrying the requisite materials so they'd have to leave the house and shop for them, then come back. Alternatively, he could try to Scry Mun, and he had all of the necessary materials for that, but it would take an hour to cast.
Neirida declared Hans useless.
They noticed the pictures, books, and other esoterica around the room but decided they were in too much of a hurry to investigate any of it. Having learned their lesson at the last staircase, Blackwarm sent his remaining isitoq upstairs to investigate. With its +18 to Stealth and Darkvision it was an excellent choice, as it spotted the two skinstiches lumbering about the crowded lab without them seeing it. Blackwarm easily identified the skinstitches, and even provided Hans with an excellent description of the swarms inside of them so that Hans identified them as hellwasp swarms and described their horrific abilities: Heavy damage, lots of hit points, and a dexterity-draining poison that paralyzed its victims as the intelligent swarm gloried in its victim's suffering. Blackwarm's immediate response: "Does Cloudkill kill them?"
Blackwarm spent a bit more time with his isitoq, casting Detect Magic through it to identify the magic items in the room above, and deciding to bring the fight downstairs. The only other curious items upstairs were an apparent secret door in the roof, and some kind of magical column below the door (neither he nor Hans managed to roll a Knowledge: Arcana high enough to identify a simple Invisibility spell).
The plan was simple: Fill the room upstairs with a Cloudkill, then wait below with a Flame Strike (Hans) and several Burning Hands (Hans and Blackwarm) to mop up the remainder.
Since I was under the impression that the swarms only had a movement of 5', the plan went off flawlessly. They crawled along the floor, mewling in agony as their constitution burned away, with only one of them surviving long enough to reach the staircase, only to be hit by a Flame Strike and two Burning Hands as it tried to cross the room. Had they remembered they could fly, they might have been dangerous.
With the swarms AND the staircase gone, the party had to wait for the Cloudkill to disperse, then Hans cast Fly on Neirida, then he and Blackwarm flew up as well to confront the skinstitches. Helden tried to climb up after them and failed on his first attempt, which should have been the warning to him that his life was about to get very, very sad.
Instead, as Neirida effortlessly carved up the skinstitches and they couldn't hit her, Helden reached the landing, tripped over the remaining bits and pieces of the railing (betrayed by wood! Who could have foreseen its treachery?), face planted at the feet of one of the skinstiches, filling his eyes with sawdust at the same time (a double fumble: Fall prone and be blinded for 1d3 rounds (Fort negates) and he failed the save and rolled a 3, then enemies get total concealment for 1d3 rounds (this time a 2)). Helden wailed that the creatures were using some kind of horrible magic on him. Neirida and Hans sighed and rolled their eyes. Blackwarm kept trying to shoot the creatures with his crossbow, which he was managing with some success.
Helden, not to be held down, stood up, used Acrobatics (at a huge penalty) to jump up onto the lab table, and, on his next turn, fumbled again and became exhausted. He whined that the creatures were too dangerous for the party. Neirida gave up and killed them both without him.
Hans used Lesser Restoration to bring Helden to Fatigued and they explored the room a bit. Blackwarm was particularly interested in the items that had been covered by a tarp, including jars containing the eviscerated and dissected bones of an old man, the upper torso and head of a ghoul, the spine, head, and one wing of a mi-go (and yes, that one Blackwarm identified without any trouble. Freak). And a large jar labeled "Number 61" that had some kind of aquatic creature swimming in it, except as Blackwarm watched it formed a face and tried to mouth some words.
One more Life Sight and Blackwarm knew he was looking at something alive, and it wanted him to open the jar lid, so after asking whether Hans could detect evil (he couldn't, leading to more accusations of being useless), Blackwarm popped the lid.
Number 61 had much to say. It was one of many victims who had fallen under Mun's knife in his attempt to create a hollow one (at least 61, the PCs could tell). Mun had contracted with the derro to kidnap the downtrodden, the lost, the poor, and any others whose disappearance would be unlikely to be noticed in order to pursue his experiments. In return, he promised the derro skins they could wear to walk in daylight and spread their mayhem to the surface world.
As for Mun's current whereabouts, he met with a man named Lowls and they planned to visit a library known as the Mysterium in the city of Katheer, and therein Lowls would bribe his way into the Soul, a special vault where a book called the Necronomicon is kept. Lowls was worried about the wards and a guardian named the Keeper, but believed he could surmount this difficulty. Once he had the Necronomicon, he would contact his old gnoll slaver friend Biting Lash to help him organize an expedition to find the hidden city of Neruzavin. Neirida's spine tingled at the name "Biting Lash"; this was the cruel slavemistress who had originally sold her to Lowls! She looked forward to getting reacquainted.
Finally, Number 61 warned them that the derro commander and her second-in-command were upstairs waiting for them in ambush, and above that was a creature that even the derro feared that Mun called his "anomalous friend". Number 61 asked them to be careful.
Once the party had heard all that Number 61 had to offer, it asked that they pour a vial of blue liquid into its jar to put it out of its misery. Blackwarm, being Blackwarm, just said, "OK, Here you go," and did it. Sometimes, Blackwarm is a good bird.
Knowing that an ambush awaited, the party went into full, "Sometimes we're going to use brutally efficient tactics" mode. Hans and Neirida flew up to the trap door, then Hans flung it open as Neirida popped in, but couldn't see either of the derro. Twain put Thorn Body on herself and Altheel cast Mirror Image, rolling a 1 (of course). But Blackwarm, wily, canny, nasty Blackwarm, had put Greater Invisibility on Helden, then Dimension Doored him into the room, on the opposite side from Neirida. He managed to blow his Perception roll, but he saw where Neirida was looking and did a full move to the corner, ending up right next to Altheel.
Hans popped up and rolled a 41 Perception check. So much for Stealth. He cast Slumber Hex on Twain and down she went. Altheel, unaware of Helden right next to him, tried to cast Mage Hand. Helden decided it wasn't an appropriate time to fumble so instead rolled a critical hit, confirmed, and hit Altheel instead of any of his images. The 45 points of damage was plenty to prevent him from getting the spell off. Neirida pinned him in, and the rest was mop-up. The mirror images kept him alive long enough for him to give Neirida big puppy dog eyes and plead for his life, but she doesn't speak Aklo so it didn't help and she cut him down.
The final act of the evening was deciding what to do with Twain. As far as I could tell, by trying to tie her up they would awaken her (well, the text of Sleep says, "Slapping or wounding", so I suppose gentle tying would be permissible), or at least her Thorn Body would destroy the ropes, but coup de gracing her would be a piece of cake. Since I'm not a big fan of, "Since it's easier to kill her let's just do that," I allowed them to fully disarm her while she slept and work out some kind of binding to tie her up.
Life is more interesting with her alive.
Blackwarm's cloudkill pretty much wiped out everyone except the derro rogues, and the only slight amusement was when Blackwarm couldn't dispel his own cloudkill, so Hans had to dispel it for him.
You always succeed on dispel check when using dispel magic on the spells you cast yourself.
Blackwarm's cloudkill pretty much wiped out everyone except the derro rogues, and the only slight amusement was when Blackwarm couldn't dispel his own cloudkill, so Hans had to dispel it for him.You always succeed on dispel check when using dispel magic on the spells you cast yourself.
Is that true? *SIGH*
Ugh. Found it. Well, looks like Hans has an extra Dispel Magic lying around for the day...
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Session 58: Was that it? Played 22-Aug-2019
...but having a creature with at-will Air Walk plummet 10' to the ground (hence prone and likely flanked) just leads to a sad, smashy bit of abomination flesh.
My *major* disappointment with Mun's house was that it really came across as a "recently missing person" case, where the paranoid Mun had somehow fallen afoul of circumstances beyond his control, so the party had to hurry to save him. Which meant that all those really well-written traps, the nice little curios and valuables that were lovingly put in to give the whole house an otherworldly sense of creepiness? They were all lost in the shuffle not because the party didn't care about loot, but because the party was in such a hurry to save Mun that they didn't pay attention to their surroundings.
It was a disappointment, because the author put a lot of time and thought into creating an unbelievably creepy house of horror, but then putting in a sense of urgency in Mun's disappearance kind of spoiled it. I think I would have preferred a scenario where someone came to the PCs and said, "Mun's been missing for days. Can you check his house for clues?"
THAT would have been epic!
Cassomir, Day 3: As the party finished tying up Twain, they heard a low, barely-audible murmuring in one corner of the room. Helden hid, while Neirida moved the "curtain" of skin aside with her sword. There, sitting at the base of a ladder going up to the ceiling sat yet another hollow one. However, this one was unmistakeably a hollow one, as scratch marks on its cheeks and around its eyes were hollow beneath, and it seemed that it had been trying to unravel itself. Attempts to communicate with it proved fruitless, and mentioning going up the ladder just made it burst into tears. With a massive Sense Motive roll, all Hans could tell them was that it seemed like its duty was to keep them from going up the ladder, but it didn't seem happy about its duty.
Neirida tried to circumvent the entire issue by flying up instead of using the ladder, but that was enough to force the hollow one's hand and we entered combat. Except the hollow one had been sitting and really wasn't that into the fight, as evidenced by the fact that it was dropped in just two rounds with only a single punch to Helden to show for it. As it perished under Neirida's blade, it whispered, "Thank you!"
"That's not what I wanted to hear!"
As the hollow one fell, each PC saw images of a fungus rapidly growing and then collapsing in on itself before growing anew, and a whispery voice said, “It reaches its tendrils through the minds of those who know of it. It reaches beyond the veil of dreams. Hurry.”
They figured that was an indication that they should go up.
Preparing for the "anomalous friend" in the attic, Neirida took a position in the air next to the trap door, as did Hans, and Helden drank a potion of Vanish and went in. He found nothing but a large (20'x20') empty attic full of ivy. The windows were broken, so moonlight streamed in, but even with Hans' Light spell he saw nothing out of the ordinary. As Neirida and Hans waited below, Blackwarm clambered up to use Life Sight. The dark young of Shub-Niggurath, speaking nothing but Aklo, did not understand the conversation and waited patiently for the rest of the party it had heard below to come in. They didn't.
Instead, Blackwarm looked up and saw that the entire ceiling was a single living creature, warned Helden, and they started backing out. We went into initiatives, Helden went first, and he dragged Blackwarm through the trap door, both of them plummeting 10' to the floor below. (Helden added insult to injury by making his Acrobatics roll, so only Blackwarm took damage from the fall.) The dark young was perplexed. The creatures had come in, it hadn't moved nor done anything, and yet they had started and fallen out of the trap door. Perhaps they were confused. It decided to wait. The party spoke for a few moments, and again the dark young could not understand them.
It did understand getting hit by a Baleful Polymorph from Hans, and sent an Entangle down the trap door to slow its prey down while it figured out how to get at them. Both Blackwarm and Hans became entangled, but unfortunately for it, Neirida did not. She flew up and in its astonishment at having her pop into its view (she had not registered on its Tremorsense, as she was flying), it smacked itself with its own tentacle, doing 2 points of CON damage. (HOW CAN YOU FUMBLE AGAINST A RAGING BARBARIAN WHEN YOU HAVE A +18 TO HIT?!?!?!?)
Neirida gave it a solid cut as she moved up. Combined with the hit points it lost from the CON damage, it plummeted to the floor. Only Neirida was in the room, and she easily evaded its mass. But it was now prone. Now that they could see it fully, they received another mysterious message: a chaotic image of hundreds of faces all flickering between one another, and the voice whispering, “It sends its tendrils through their minds to gather its strength, but despite your knowledge you are clean. You can stop it. Don’t let it infect this world and serve it to Carcosa.”
The party took a "can do" attitude. Helden climbed to the top of the ladder, adding a flank to its list of indignities. Blackwarm succeeded on his concentration check but his attempt to Possess the creature failed. Similarly, Hans' attempt at a Slumber Hex failed. (After three rolls of 13 on its saving rolls, Impus Minor said, "Dad, your bad guys aren't supposed to roll so well on saves!"
"What about the fumble?"
"That doesn't count!")
It finally had a turn. A single turn on which to do something spectacular. Since it was now within reach of everyone, it shot out one tentacle each at the 4 PCs. Another 1 against Blackwarm and all it managed was a paltry hit against Neirida (it failed to grab her) and a nice solid grab of… Hans. And who cares about that? With it flanked and floored, Neirida had no trouble at all hit-critting it and sending it back to the black abyss from whence it had come.
Impus Minor asked, "Is that it?"
"What?"
"I mean, c'mon, Dad. Your bad guys are pretty anticlimactic!"
My thoughts exactly.
As Hans healed those who had been mildly injured, Helden searched the attic and found a hidden treasure chest. Vomiting up a piece of scrap wood he had eaten for breakfast, he easily picked the lock and found 11,000 gold worth of assorted platinum pieces and diamonds, plus the deed to the building! The party was happy. Especially Blackwarm, who felt that now he finally had a place to house all of his undead abominations! But they were also tired. They considered going to Arlen immediately, but it was the middle of the night, the shops were all closed so they couldn't spend their newfound loot, and it would probably be better to wait for morning anyway.
Helden amused himself by calculating the exact moment a paladin of Abadar would arrive at the door, figuring in the time of sunrise, the hour to pray, and the time to walk to the building, and Arlen did not disappoint. He had a group of town guards with him. Neirida took him by the hand, bidding the town guard wait below, as she led him up, up, past the horrific laboratory, into the room of skin (at which point he almost used Smite Evil just on principle), and up to the dead dark young.
Arlen was impressed.
He asked whether they were sure the house was safe for his men, and Neirida and Helden wisely answered that no, it probably wasn't, since they'd been in kind of a hurry searching for Mun. So Arlen escorted Helden (or vice versa) as they moved floor-by-floor through the house, checking for traps or other dangers the party might have missed. Arlen's eyes went wide at the passage to the Darklands they had discovered, but was pleased that it was so easy to block up by filling in a single passage. The ochre jelly would be no issue once he had some clerics and a bard to help him (clerics to protect them from elements, a bard to tell them how to kill it), so he sent two of his men to fetch "a bevy of the highest-level clerics and bards available at the temple and local taverns".
When they reached the ground floor and Arlen discovered valuables in the pockets of some of the coats in the vestibule, he realized something truly remarkable: This party did not seem to have looted anything from the building! He asked them about it, in particular the deed, as he would need that to take over the building to wall in the passageway to the Darklands. They admitted that they had the deed, but had taken nothing else. Unfortunately, Blackwarm and Helden gave contradictory answers, and Blackwarm failed at his Bluff while Helden succeeded, so, "Not much," was a lie, but, "Nothing at all," rang true. Arlen sighed. Adventurers.
Being not just a paladin, but a paladin of Abadar, he decided to explain the situation to them: *If* they could testify that they had taken nothing from the house, they would have done a massive service to the city of Cassomir, and the city would have to pay them due recompense, in addition to recompense for the building that would need to be confiscated due to its connection to the Darklands. If, however, the party had run through the house looting anything that wasn't nailed down, they would have much less of a claim for compensation.
Helden immediately blurted out, "Oops!" and several valuable items appeared from his Handy Haversack. Arlen smiled grimly. Would all of them now be able to swear under oath that they had taken nothing whatsoever of value from the house? Yes? Excellent! He had a case for significant reimbursement for them!
Once they were finished with that discussion, it was time to explore the rest of the house. In an amazing sequence of die-rolling, Helden managed to sense and disarm every single trap in the house, from the Black Tentacles trap to the area-effect curse to the Summon Monster VIII. He was on a roll… literally! With the DC 33 Perception checks he needed a 14 of higher. No problem! Multiple times!
So Helden made the house safe for humanity, Arlen's clerics and bards arrived and the ooze was quickly dealt with, and, in a moment of utter epicness, Arlen looked at Neirida and said, "I realize that your morning will be filled with depositions at the temple, and your afternoon will be full of preparing for your journey, but perhaps if you have time we might have dinner together?"
Helden and Blackwarm immediately responded, "That would be great!"
Even Neirida could sense Arlen's resigned disappointment. "We need to leave as soon as we possibly can, but perhaps we can do lunch, after the depositions?"
Arlen readily agreed.
As more men arrived at the house, Arlen led the party to the temple of Abadar, where each of them was questioned politely but thoroughly under Zone of Truth to learn the details of what had happened in the house. The clerics and judiciary were appalled. Mun was immediately sentenced to death in absentia. The party was credited with saving the city from the worst derro infestation in their history, and probably even an invasion. As they reunited in the foyer of the courtroom, Arlen arrived, smiling. "The city is very grateful for your work. As a token of our appreciation…" he gestured, and four burly men carrying chests laid a chest in front of each party member. Arlen opened Neirida's. "You have each been awarded 2,000 platinum pieces as due compensation for your work on behalf of the city, and for your relinquishing claims to the bottom three floors of the old asylum." Helden and Blackwarm immediately realized that this meant that they got to keep the top three floors!
Helden was even more excited about getting to keep the chest.
As they realized that they were now property owners, a cleric smiled and approached. For a mere 1,000 gold pieces, he would be willing to take over as property manager of those floors for them, and would send them monthly statements and income once he managed to renovate it and rent it out. Blackwarm and Helden readily agreed, and paid the cleric.
Finally, Arlen noted that the party needed to pursue Lowls and Mun as quickly as possible. While they did not boast a wizard capable of teleporting directly to Katheer, they did routine business in Absalom, and the city would teleport them there free of charge at their convenience, at which point finding a wizard familiar enough with Katheer to teleport them there would be easy. The party readily agreed.
Done with their court work, they had a pleasant lunch with Arlen, went shopping, and prepared for their journey.
The party leveled up to level 11. Call Spinal Tap!
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^"Call Spinal Tap!" -- uh, does this mean somebody's about to spontaneously combust?
Aaaaand... here we go again. I guess it's no surprise, since it's the same author, but I'm writing up the Mysterium and yet again it's, "All your WBL is dependent on stealing everything in the library."
Or pretty much any wealth at all for that matter. Of the roughly 120-150k in loot I see in the library (haven't done my spreadsheet yet), if the PCs are good-aligned and do not loot the mysterium they get... Mun's gear and a 5k reward, for a total value of about 32k. Add that to not selling anything in Mun's house and the PCs would have garnered under 40k in two full levels unless they loot their employers' stuff. (More if you count the previous book.)
This book needs a "murderhobos only" stamp on the front...
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OK. Finished the spreadsheet.
Total wealth assuming the PCs loot and sell everything: 143,112.5 gp
Total wealth if the PCs don't steal library property: 20,820 gp
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This spreadsheet sounds like something that should be in-world at a Thieves' Guild headquarters, in the part where they train new recruits . . . .
This spreadsheet sounds like something that should be in-world at a Thieves' Guild headquarters, in the part where they train new recruits . . . .
Well, from 11th to 12th level is supposed to be a 26k jump per PC, or 104k total, so I *suppose* the AP makes the kind assumption that you're not going to kill and loot the friendly guards outside the myterium (26k). My absolute favorite bit is that you're asked, "Please, please, whatever you do, please find the body of our head librarian and bring him back to us..."
...and you're supposed to loot him.
This spreadsheet sounds like something that should be in-world at a Thieves' Guild headquarters, in the part where they train new recruits . . . .
Well, from 11th to 12th level is supposed to be a 26k jump per PC, or 104k total, so I *suppose* the AP makes the kind assumption that you're not going to kill and loot the friendly guards outside the myterium (26k). My absolute favorite bit is that you're asked, "Please, please, whatever you do, please find the body of our head librarian and bring him back to us..."
...and you're supposed to loot him.
is this something the book says or something the people asking you to bring him back say?
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is this something the book says or something the people asking you to bring him back say?This spreadsheet sounds like something that should be in-world at a Thieves' Guild headquarters, in the part where they train new recruits . . . .
Well, from 11th to 12th level is supposed to be a 26k jump per PC, or 104k total, so I *suppose* the AP makes the kind assumption that you're not going to kill and loot the friendly guards outside the myterium (26k). My absolute favorite bit is that you're asked, "Please, please, whatever you do, please find the body of our head librarian and bring him back to us..."
...and you're supposed to loot him.
The quote from the AP is:
"[Elder Thynn]'s primary motivation is to see the body of Elder Lythiin brought out and subsequently raised."So I'd argue that that is an AP-specific statement of, "You are supposed to bring his body out."
As for loot, the Mysterium is supposed to take them from 11th to 12th level, meaning that by WBL standards they should receive 104k from the building. If you exclude the possibility of murdering the guards outside the building in broad daylight in a major city (a 26k haul), the total loot within the building is 116k, barely enough assuming they find every bit of it, and APs are supposed to provide at least SOME padding under the assumption that they won't.
If you remove Elder Lythiin's gear, the total drops to 91k, putting the PCs below WBL.
The conclusion is that either:
(1) The PCs are supposed to kill and loot the guards outside the Mysterium,
(2) The PCs are supposed to loot and sell Elder Lythiin's gear, or
(3) The AP is supposed to be run below WBL.
Since I have read many Paizo staff posts about how APs are supposed to provide at least WBL, and I have seen no contradictory statements in the AP itself, I have to conclude that either (1) or (2) is true.
Since killing innocent guards in broad daylight is probably beyond even this AP, I'm making the conclusion that the answer is (2): The AP expects you to loot the elder's body before turning him over for resurrection.
EDIT: As a side point, I've run or played through 8 of the published APs, and only two of them had significant WBL issues: Carrion Crown and Strange Aeons. And in both cases, PCs were expected to loot from their hosts, refuse to cooperate without compensation, and otherwise behave in a much more mercenary manner than in the other APs. Which is hilarious, because both are "horror-themed" APs, and in the horror genre most protagonists aren't driven by greed, but by investigative curiosity...
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Mm.
I must state before anything else I truly, truly abhor wealth by level.
It has lead to more arguements and overall nonsense than I care to remember. (So naturally I cant help but to think about the guy who gained a level at the end of a fight and DEMANDED they get all of the money so they could have WBL...But I digress...) So this likely colors my opinion on this in that I am not seeing where you are getting that feeling from. In the other thread I thought you mentioned something about the person who hired the PCs for the job(who should clearly be paying more) being okay with the PCs helping themselves to the man's material possessions because they REALLY wanted him to come back to life, and that seemed a bit off but still okay-ish. But if noone in the game is saying it, then why are you assuming that they must resort to this level of robbery other than to keep the PCs at WBL(ugh)?
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Mm.
I must state before anything else I truly, truly abhor wealth by level.
It has lead to more arguements and overall nonsense than I care to remember. (So naturally I cant help but to think about the guy who gained a level at the end of a fight and DEMANDED they get all of the money so they could have WBL...But I digress...) So this likely colors my opinion on this in that I am not seeing where you are getting that feeling from. In the other thread I thought you mentioned something about the person who hired the PCs for the job(who should clearly be paying more) being okay with the PCs helping themselves to the man's material possessions because they REALLY wanted him to come back to life, and that seemed a bit off but still okay-ish. But if noone in the game is saying it, then why are you assuming that they must resort to this level of robbery other than to keep the PCs at WBL(ugh)?
I personally hated WBL. Vehemently. It leads to exactly the kind of privileged behavior to which you are referring.
However, there is an opposite of WBL, which is "no wealth at all", which is the approach that Carrion Crown and Strange Aeons are taking, and which, having played a fighter in Carrion Crown, is utterly miserable.
The moment I stopped hating WBL was when my 12th-level fighter was using a mundane greatsword because he could not afford even a +1 one. He had normal armor and hence with his low-20s AC he couldn't avoid being hit. It was, without question, the worst AP I've ever played in because it was still written with CR-appropriate monsters with their scaled attack bonuses, ACs, and special abilities with HUGE saving throws, and my fighter spent most fights utterly ineffective because he was being mind controlled, couldn't hit, couldn't help being hit, or what-have-you.
It's not so much, "I expect every single one of my players to have exactly 126k in wealth at 12th level," it's, "At 12th level I expect my frontliners to have an attack bonus of around +20 and an armor class in at least the mid-20s, with their best save around 16 and their worst around 10."
Just a general feel for how effective the fighters should be.
If they're well below that level of competence, it means their gear isn't good enough, so I need to look at better drops.
If I weren't adjusting things, the entire party would finish the Mysterium in mundane armor with a handful of +1 weapons and not even a full set of +1 Cloaks of Resistance.
It's not so much the money, but the AP's approach of, "We're going to put in monsters that would be extremely hard for a fully-equipped group" (mostly CR+1 encounters, with some CR+2 and a couple of CR+3), combined with, "The party gets no gear unless they are mercilessly mercenary" that bothers me.
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I mean, we love gritty, low-level play: When we did a lot of Champions, we had "street level" heroes at 100 points, and "world level" heroes at 300 points, and people preferred to play the "street level" game.
But as GMs, none of us ever hit the "street level" heros with "world level" villains.
If you're putting in CR+3 monsters with lots of nasty abilities (Natural Invisibility, a grapple with a disease that you need Heal and Remove Curse to cure, etc.), don't have the PCs be at 1/6th WBL. It won't end well.
So if I play a character in either of these, I need to build specifically to be able to survive with far substandard wealth. For general starters, this would seem to point towards Druid, Monk, Sorcerer, and the archetypes of Magus that don't depend much (or at all) on armor (and these classes also all have good Will Saves as long as you don't use Unchained Monk or else really pump your Wisdom hard-core).
So if I play a character in either of these, I need to build specifically to be able to survive with far substandard wealth. For general starters, this would seem to point towards Druid, Monk, Sorcerer, and the archetypes of Magus that don't depend much (or at all) on armor (and these classes also all have good Will Saves as long as you don't use Unchained Monk or else really pump your Wisdom hard-core).
Right, but if you're told, "This is a totally-standard AP" and then at 12th level you have a total value of 30,000 gp and you made a paladin or fighter, I'd expect you'd be a little peeved. And that's about the level it would be if I weren't having random NPCs hand them boatloads of cash.
Too late for me to edit what I put above, but I found this old thread.
Also just remembered that I followed part of an Ironfang Invasion PbP where a Kineticist was totally brokenly overpowered highly effective without needing magic items. If you can one-shot a Dragon (he did this once . . . and people say Kineticist is underpowered), even Demon-level Damage Reduction is just a speed bump, as long as you can hit the enemies at all.
Anyway, with respect to the issue of being told "This is a totally-standard AP" -- telling us otherwise is part of why we're in your campaign journal thread.
Edit: Also just remembered Phantom Blade Spiritualist -- you still need to worry about how to defend yourself when you're poor, but at least you don't have to worry (much) about your weapon.
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Session 59: Romance in the air? Not if I can help it! Played 29-Aug-2019
Yes. It was a very silly night. With lots of die-rolling. Because Helden demanded it.
Cassomir, Day 4: As the party prepared for their departure to Absalom, Blackwarm asked if he might have a few minutes to copy a couple of spells from the local mage's guild: Black Tentacles and Acid Pit. The mages had no issue with allowing a hero of Blackwarm's standing access to their spellbooks, and readily agreed to let him copy the spells at the standard rate. The party asked Blackwarm how long he'd be. He rolled up his beady black eyes, scratched his feathery head with a quill, and thought, "Well, I have to cast Read Magic, then read the spells, so that's, er, 8 minutes... then I have to study each one for an hour… then four hours each to copy them down…"
Neirida immediately interjected, "In other words, I'm going to be free for dinner!"
Blackwarm barely looked up from his thinking, "Yes, yes. I'm pretty sure you will be!"
Helden attempted to mutter under his breath, but was still loud enough for everyone to hear him, "Not if *I* can help it!"
Neirida cheerfully headed to the temple of Abadar to let Arlen know she would indeed be free for the evening, and he was happy to arrange to meet her for dinner at sunset when he went off duty. She arrived at the appointed hour, little suspecting that Helden, carrying Blackwarm's isitoq, was right there behind her. Actually, I'd be amazed if Neirida didn't suspect anything, but Arlen offered her his arm, she accepted it awkwardly, and they strolled off into the sunset.
Arlen led her to an ordinary-looking tavern a few blocks away from the temple, but if the crowds were any indication, this tavern was anything but ordinary. Arlen sighed. "That's the problem with living in a town of Abadar. Everyone knows where the best deals are!"
He went over and spoke to a serving boy, who quickly ran in. In moments, a table was being set up just outside of the tavern, under an awning to be protected from the fading sunlight, but close enough to the tavern to get prompt service. Dinner started well enough, with Arlen asking Neirida about her trials, but after she got a slab of perfectly-done rib roast placed in front of her with great fanfare, a large chunk went missing. "Helden! I know you're there! Give me my food back!"
A beggar appeared from behind a bush. "Heeeeelden… who is this Heeeeelden of which you speak! I am but a beggar…"
Neirida stood up, murder in her eyes. Arlen went over his spell list, but had not prepared any spells for "shoo away crazy party members". As the beggar started trying to come up with stories as to why Neirida shouldn't be with Arlen, she forcefully grabbed Arlen, bent him over backwards, and planted a firm kiss on his lips. Arlen did not struggle. The "beggar" ran away. Into the air. As beggars are known to do. Not. Neirida apologized, but Arlen insisted that he would not allow her companion to ruin their evening and begged her to continue. After a fabulous dinner, marred only by Neirida's missing rib, they had dessert, went Dutch (because Abadar), and Arlen had to beg his leave, as he'd been asked to patrol in the evening in case some of the derro had made it to the surface to prey on the innocent.
He kissed her hand, an acolyte cast Daylight on him so he would be able to see and all would know he was coming, and Neirida mused that it would be extraordinarily unlikely for a paladin with a Daylight spell on him to encounter any derro at all. Unless the derro had a serious deathwish.
Back at the inn, there was much nonsense. Blackwarm's isitoq was crying on Helden in an attempt to "punish" him for his deeds. Helden was gnawing on a block of wood. Neirida made a few very specific threats, and the party went to bed.
Cassomir, Day 5: As the party prepared to leave, Neirida went to a curio shop and bought herself a Shoanti bone whistle she could use to train her dogs. The vendor initially asked for 20 gold, but Neirida mentioned that she was but a poor naive young woman, and couldn't tell whether that was a fair price, so she'd ask her friend, Arlen the paladin. The price immediately dropped to 2 gold pieces, and the vendor told Neirida to tell Arlen that he hadn't cheated her. Neirida was happy. She wrote a very nice letter to Arlen thanking him for dinner and his company, hoping to see him again, and naming the vendor who had lowered his price for her, citing the before and after prices, completely unaware of the kind of scrutiny that might place the vendor under.
In any case, an utterly flamboyant wizard, complete with midnight robe with white stars, fake white beard, and conical cap showed up to teleport the party to Absalom. Helden resisted the urge to trip him. They successfully arrived in Absalom and the wizard scurried off to the temple of Abadar to receive his next assignment, leaving the party clueless as to how to proceed. Blackwarm spotted a temple of Sarenrae, and had some recollection that they had something to do with Katheer, so the party went there to inquire as to a teleport to Katheer. The clerics immediately agreed, and even offered to fetch a wizard for them while the party waited in their temple for a mere 10% surcharge. The party immediately agreed, and decided they liked Sarenrae very much as they were treated quite royally until they were teleported to Katheer.
Unfortunately, the wizard who teleported them wasn't familiar with the Mysterium, and took them to the temple of Sarenrae instead. Fortunately, Blackwarm's Knowledge: Local of 32 immediately led them to a former custodian who not only could tell them the location of the Mysterium, but he could also tell them of the recent troubles: About a week ago, thieves had broken into the Mysterium and triggered something horrible. Whatever had awakened had killed several of the librarians (known as Stewards), including the master of the library, Elder Lythiin. The custodian had been very fond of Elder Lythiin, and was sad to hear of his passing. The Mysterium was now closed to visitors, and the guards at the entrance are there just as much to keep whatever it is in as to keep intruders out.
Blackwarm thanked his source, but did not tip him, making him sad. They then asked about lodgings, and were directed to one of the finer establishments in Katheer. They rented two suites at 10 gold pieces each: One for Neirida, Blackwarm, and her dogs, and one for Hans and Helden. Hans tested his Slumber Hex on Helden. It worked. Satisfied that he'd get a decent night's rest, he agreed to the arrangements. Helden was nonplussed.
Taking a carriage to the Mysterium, the guards were at first very wary of the newcomers, but Blackwarm(!!) very quickly described in eerie accuracy what he suspected had happened in the library. Seriously. I hadn't told Impus Major anything and his description was scary dead-on. The guards, seeing a group who obviously knew just how bad things were *and* were willing to go in and "fix" things, quickly directed them to Elder Thyrr.
Once again, Blackwarm did a fantastic job of describing the situation, and Neirida had no trouble convincing Elder Thyrr that the party's interest was in Mun and Lowls, not the Necronomicon. They agreed to return it or destroy it at her pleasure, and she asked that they return it. She went on to tell them everything she knew about the Mysterium: She gave them maps, and warned them of the mirror on the first floor that was spewing hounds of Tindalos. She pointed out the meditation chamber in the ceiling that they might use as a resting spot or retreat. Beyond that, every level was protected by a set of angelic statues whose heads had to be turned to open the port to the next level. They would have to travel down, down, down into the Mysterium to the very bottom, find an eyeless angel statue, and stick their fingers into its eyes to reset the wards. Until then, they would be stuck in the building. As they went down, in addition to any other dangers that had been unleashed, they would likely have to face haunts that had existed since before the catastrophe, but that were now probably far more dangerous. Neirida asked Hans whether he needed a day to prepare Death Ward, and he had to admit that it was a spell he couldn't cast.
Finally, Elder Thyrr asked that they retrieve the body of Elder Lythiin in the hopes that he could be raised, and to say prayers over and cover any other victims they came across. The party readily agreed. At the end of it all, she would pay them a cash reward and grant them a week of unfettered access to the library. They didn't seem particularly impressed.
Just wait 'til Blackwarm learns that that means, "You can copy any spell you want for free, as long as you've got the ink."
I think he'll perk up.
Speaking of perking up, as they approached the front door of the Mysterium and the guards parted to let them through and Elder Thyrr prepared to open the door, Blackwarm was practically humming in his good mood.
"I'm going to get me SOOOOOOO many bloody hound of Tindalos skeletons!"
Oh, those wacky Necromancers!
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In case anyone wants to convert this AP to Pathfinder 2nd Edition, I just stumbled upon this thread, which may or may not (too early to tell) end up with solutions for the characters being in poverty . . . .
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So if you really wanted a concrete example of the disconnect between how the AP author expected players to behave and how my players behave, I present last night's session as Exhibit A:
GM: You reach the mirror. It does not seem to be doing anything at the moment.
GothBard: I roll a Spellcraft of... 23. What do I know about this thing?
GM: You're fairly certain that it will continue to spew hounds of Tindalos for as long as it is active.
GothBard: Do I have any idea how to deactivate it without breaking it?
GM: No.
GothBard: Did Elder Thyrr tell us whether or not it was OK to smash the mirror?
So yes. "Here is a mirror that will spew infinite hounds of Tindalos at you until you smash it."
"Did we get permission to smash it?"
My players are that NPC-conscious. And that's not something this particular AP planned for. They're supposed to be mercenary loner types, not ones who care about collateral damage.
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Session 60: Who's a Pretty Birdie? Aaaaah! Played 05-Sep-2019
Well… utterly harmless… to everyone except the party wizard… oops!
Katheer, Day 1: As the guards prepared to open the door, Hans cast Magic Circle Against Evil on himself. Since they were well aware of the hounds' gaze attacks, Hans offered to cast Obscuring Mist as the doors opened. The party agreed that this was a good idea, and they warned the guards that this would happen. As the group stepped up to the door, each of them received a vision of thousands of yellow slugs oozing out of a crack in a basalt wall. They heard a voice whispering, “The touch of ruin, of death, is upon this place. More than the blot. More than the black stars. Many gather in this chaos. There are deep roots here, and that which should not be has been birthed within. This place is poisoned. Hurry—you must staunch the wound.”
As usual, they just shrugged it off, then as the guards swung open the doors Hans cast Obscuring Mist into the hall in front of them and they heard the baying of hounds. Helden stepped in, safely obscured by the mist, ironically enough. Blackwarm followed, laid out his Portable Hole, and ordered Stitch (his bloody skeleton of a hound of Tindalos) to come out and join Helden. Unfortunately, everyone had forgotten about the hounds' Angled Entry ability, or at least didn't expect them to use it. Three hounds appeared out of the corners around the entrance, with the fourth apparently attempting to enter Blackwarm's space and failing (Angled Entry leaves a heck of a lot up to GM interpretation, such as, "How do they know where they're targeting?" and, "What if someone's already there?").
Since all three of them were within 5' of an enemy, all three used their gaze attacks. Two of them were within 5' of both Helden and Blackwarm and rolled randomly to determine a target, and both chose Blackwarm. Three failed Fortitude saves later, Blackwarm had taken 15d6 before Neirida or Hans were even in the fight! Neirida stepped in and ripped off most of a hound's hit points in a couple of hits (the third was an honest miss, and not due to the fog). Hans, with no healing spells short of Heal prepared, was reduced to stepping in and using a wand of Cure Light Wounds on poor Blackwarm, which didn't help much at all.
Blackwarm, seeing his little birdie life flashing before his eyes, from hatchling to psychotic little death-obsessed chick to doing horrible things for Lowls to now, decided to plummet into his own Portable Hole. He successfully landed on his feet (talons?), while Helden had no issues taking a 5' step and using Neirida's flank to dispatch the wounded hound. Unfortunately for Blackwarm, while one of the hounds was now well out of his range and blocked by both Neirida and Helden (and its limited visibility prevented it from knowing where Blackwarm had gone), the other one flew down and hit Blackwarm with another Ripping Gaze. Blackwarm cried out, "Help me, Hans! I'm dying!"
The other hound was utterly useless against Neirida and Helden, as you would expect from a CR 7 creature against two 11th-level frontliners. The fourth hound was engaged with Stitch, but neither was doing much of anything to the other. Hans sighed. He really hadn't prepared for this, so there wasn't much he could do. He hit the hound he could see floating over Blackwarm with Banishment. Because using a 6th-level spell on a CR 7 creature is SO resource-wise. On the bright side, the hound failed its save massively and was whisked away to another dimension. (And I swear Banishment used to have a clause that said, "And you cannot return to the plane from which you were banished for 24 hours." Am I misremembering that?)
Blackwarm cowered at the bottom of the Portable Hole, thanking Hans profusely. Stitch remained ineffective against the hound he was facing. Neirida and Helden had no such trouble; Neirida got a hit-hit-crit against her hound, and even with one hit being nullified by the fog she annihilated it. Helden did significant damage to Stitch's hound. Hans sighed, dropped his Handy Haversack, activated his flight, and flew down to start healing Blackwarm. Blackwarm continued to whine. Neirida told him that he was even more irritating than the hounds. This did not improve his mood.
Neirida and Helden had little trouble finishing off the fourth hound, then moved out of the fog and down the hallway, proceeding extremely cautiously. Stitch returned to his master and watched as Hans set to work healing him up with a wand of Cure Light Wounds. Helden spotted the mirror Elder Thyrr had mentioned, and he approached it cautiously. He couldn't figure out what he was supposed to do. He asked Neirida to join him, and as far as she could tell it would continue to spawn hounds until they deactivated it.
But she had no idea how to deactivate it.
They decided that smashing it was probably the best course of action. They called out to Hans and Blackwarm to find out whether Elder Thyrr had said anything about whether or not it was OK to smash the mirror, but no one recalled her mentioning such a thing. Helden started stabbing the mirror, but he couldn't do much damage to it, as solid steel mirrors weren't his forte. Neirida, on the other hand took care of the mirror in just a couple of rounds (and 2 rounds before the next set of hounds spawned).
Once the mirror was destroyed, they searched the hallways. Hans helped them locate the secret entrance to the meditation room in the ceiling in case they needed to flee, and at the northern end they found the valve that would let them proceed downwards, except it was sealed.
In yet another, "Players don't listen to that stuff you read out loud" moment, the players were flummoxed. They had the four angel statues around the valve, but spent about 5 minutes of real time trying to figure out what to do. A couple of horrifically low Perception rolls didn't help, so Helden finally made a massive Disable Device check and realized that there must be something you turned on this level that made the valve open. That still didn't ring a bell, so I went ahead and reminded them of what Elder Thyrr had told them, since honestly it was less than 20 minutes ago in game time, and about a week ago in real time. They sighed, shook their heads, turned around the angel heads, pulled the angel tongue, and Blackwarm sent Stitch and his isitoq downstairs. It was 70' down, and there was nothing obviously dangerous below, so they headed down.
At that point Impus Minor said he wasn't feeling well, so we stopped the sesson.
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And sometimes you just scare yourself:
I despise the dread wraith using its reach from within the walls to get "free hits" on the PCs. In fact, in the description of incorporeality this is specifically impossible; it can only sense adjacent squares, so it CANNOT use reach while remaining safely within the stone. Yet another, "Be a jerk GM and ignore the rules" moment in this AP.
Yet Hans, way back in Book 3, prepared Stone Shape, Anti-Incorporeal Shell, and Spirit-Bound Blade.
That is one fricking dead wraith the moment it pops out. I'm guessing it gets ONE hit on Neirida before Hans exposes it and either Neirida one-rounds it or Blackwarm owns it.
I look forward to the write-up, and finding out if they did smash it, or if they just tried turning it to face the wall so the hounds couldn't come out of it.
It would be tempting to try to find some kind of permanently deadly environment to position the mirror over. Probably none handy where the PCs were, though.
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So if you really wanted a concrete example of the disconnect between how the AP author expected players to behave and how my players behave, I present last night's session as Exhibit A:
GM: You reach the mirror. It does not seem to be doing anything at the moment.
GothBard: I roll a Spellcraft of... 23. What do I know about this thing?
GM: You're fairly certain that it will continue to spew hounds of Tindalos for as long as it is active.
GothBard: Do I have any idea how to deactivate it without breaking it?
GM: No.
GothBard: Did Elder Thyrr tell us whether or not it was OK to smash the mirror?So yes. "Here is a mirror that will spew infinite hounds of Tindalos at you until you smash it."
"Did we get permission to smash it?"My players are that NPC-conscious. And that's not something this particular AP planned for. They're supposed to be mercenary loner types, not ones who care about collateral damage.
....thats... nutty. On both sides. Then again, I try to avoid doomsday devices in game for exactly these reasons.
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I look forward to the write-up, and finding out if they did smash it, or if they just tried turning it to face the wall so the hounds couldn't come out of it.It would be tempting to try to find some kind of permanently deadly environment to position the mirror over. Probably none handy where the PCs were, though.
I'm wondering what happens if you position the mirror to face another mirror.
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I'm wondering what happens if you position the mirror to face another mirror.I look forward to the write-up, and finding out if they did smash it, or if they just tried turning it to face the wall so the hounds couldn't come out of it.It would be tempting to try to find some kind of permanently deadly environment to position the mirror over. Probably none handy where the PCs were, though.
I was thinking of it as somewhat akin to a Mirror of Opposition, but with infinite charges per day and a lot more hit points. In which case putting it in front of a regular mirror wouldn't have much effect, but putting it in front of a pit of destruction would be hilarious.
Also, the whole "portable hole/bag of holding" thing can get really annoying really quickly. I understand that the original authors didn't want people stacking things, but considering bags of holding have such limited capacity, most parties are eventually going to settle on a portable hole. And then, in spite of all of the other dimensional spaces that work just fine (Rope Trick, Magnificent Mansion, etc.), if you happen to jump into the hole while wearing your Handy Haversack, BOOM!
I hand-wave that the PCs know better and just drop such things when they need to. 'Cause pointless rule if your PCs aren't cheesing it.
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For the record, between a GothBard appointment, an Impus Minor mild cold, and a high of 96°F for the day in a house with no AC and virtually no insulation, we decided to call off the game last night. But at least now Thursdays have become our "regular" night!
(For non-FaWtLers, living in the California Bay Area is wonderful because the temperature rarely climbs out of the 70s. But because of that, air conditioning and insulation are both virtually nonexistent, so when it does get hot, it gets nearly as hot inside as it does outside, which isn't that fun.)
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Also, the whole "portable hole/bag of holding" thing can get really annoying really quickly. I understand that the original authors didn't want people stacking things, but considering bags of holding have such limited capacity, most parties are eventually going to settle on a portable hole. And then, in spite of all of the other dimensional spaces that work just fine (Rope Trick, Magnificent Mansion, etc.), if you happen to jump into the hole while wearing your Handy Haversack, BOOM!I hand-wave that the PCs know better and just drop such things when they need to. 'Cause pointless rule if your PCs aren't cheesing it.
1) Agreed
2) I only acknowledge those rules exist if someone decides that they actually want to use it as a weapon/do it intentionally.3) My players don't realize I do this and really don't try to stack bags in bags, etc.
I let players do that exactly ONCE.
After that the rules are heavily enforced.
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Session 61: We Hate Incorporeals Played 19-Sep-2019
Incorporeel creatures are one of those things that should be used sparingly, because players hate them, but at the same time they're a nice change of pace when handled well. Unfortunately. "With its reach, the wraith can target most creatures in any of this level’s hallways from the safety of the bedrock walls," just isn't true. Incorporeal reads, "It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location." Lifesense reads, "a creature with lifesense must have line of effect to an object or another creature to discern that object or creature."
So if you're an incorporeal creature inside a wall, your reach means diddly unless you come out. You can't sense creatures that are 10' away.
Sooooooo frustrating!
Anyway, the PCs clearly hated the wraith because they spent 4 (!!) hero points killing it. It's the kind of thing that makes me re-think the whole, "Temporary hero point" idea. On the other hand, I was letting them use it to force GM rerolls, and I think getting rid of that would solve a lot of the issues.
Katheer, Day 1: Once Stitch and Ivan returned from exploring the immediate room below the shaft, the party discussed what to do: Should they buff? Just go down? As they pondered, the shaft sealed up again, showing them that it would remain open for exactly 1 minute. Helden, being Helden, asked, "Is there a way to get back up after that?"
Blackwarm pointed out that at the bottom of the shaft was a HUGE (footlong) iron key right next to an equally-large keyhole, so he had a pretty good idea as to how they'd get back up. They re-activated the angels, went down, and arranged themselves on the map… and miraculously, not a single one of them was within 5' of the dread wraith's walls, so it remained unaware that they were there! Even better, Neirida put up See Invisibility but it was inside the walls, so no see each other, no foul.
Blackwarm, determined to prove to Neirida that undead were indeed useful, sent Ivan the isitoq to explore the floor. Being undead, Ivan didn't trigger any haunts, so blissfully moved around the outer corridor until it spotted a pair of ooze-like beings disheartedly vandalizing the remains of a room and a few corpses. Blackwarm couldn't identify the oozes, and his description of them as, "Strawberries with tentacles" did not help Hans one bit. The group decided that rampant vandalism by ooze was definitely Not OK, so they moved to intercept the recalcitrant puddings. Neirida, certain that slashing damage would be useless, converted her sword to bashing damage. Helden moved ahead of the rest of the group, peeking around the corner as the rest remained behind… just in position to set off the Arcane Eruption haunt.
And if there was ever a PC designed to survive such a haunt, it was Helden. And if there was ever a PC unlucky enough to barely survive such a haunt, it was Helden. On the first round, Neirida saw the Force Cage surround Helden. The rest of the party moved up to see what they could do to help. On the next round, freezing cold exploded throughout the cage. Helden dodged it easily, taking no damage, but the noise did attract the mysterious tentacled strawberries, which raced forward to attack the nearest humanoid… that was, Helden.
So there was a round of silliness as the strawberries beat uselessly on the Force Cage, Helden pleaded with Blackwarm, Hans, and Neirida to free him, and fire erupted throughout the cage, once again unable to harm Helden. Then the evil strawberries found the narrow passage around the cage, but came face-to-face with Stitch, who wasn't much of a threat to them, but who blocked up the passage and prevented the second from engaging, was immune to their enzyme attack, and held one of them up long enough for Neirida to tear it apart with her reach. (Hans' Spiritual Weapon managed to miss every single attack for 6 rounds straight.) It took several rounds, during which the rest of the party did very little, but after Helden's first three Reflex rolls of 18 (for the cold), 20 (for the fire), 18 (for the acid), he ended up with three natural 1s in the 12 rounds he was in there, which is really pretty bad. Especially two in a row where he took cold, then fire. And he whined magnificently throughout.
While Helden was whining and suffering, the second strawberry became impatient and ran around the other way. It would have been uneventful, except Stitch was nearly dead from fighting the first one, so Blackwarm ran up to personally stab the creature. In a bit of a miracle, it hit him, but he managed to make the Fortitude save and NOT become preggers with an abomination. Which just would have been fitting for Blackwarm.
At the end of the fight, there were a few bits of silliness (Neirida fumbled and became Fatigued, so Hans, who wasn't doing anything anyway, spent 3 rounds casting Lesser Restoration on her, Blackwarm got grabbed and nearly killed but Hans' Spiritual Weapon finally hit at the last minute and dropped the strawberry after Neirida had done 137 of its 138 hit points, Stitch got knocked out for an hour, Ivan tried to cry on the pudding, and Helden whined a lot), but otherwise they mopped up. As they were finishing up, they spotted the face of a wraith-like creature peering at them from the opposite wall, and Blackwarm fired off a Control Undead while grappled (which Helden spent two Hero points trying to make stick). Feeling a powerful necromancer, the wraith retreated.
The party didn't have the means to protect themselves from the wraith, and no way to force it into the open, so they Dimension Doored to the temple of Sarenrae, had four Death Wards put on them, Dimension Doored back into the room, declared a veritable smorgasbord of nastiness, and Neirida stepped close to the wall. The wraith took the bait and got hit by a Heal, Neirida's now Ghost Touch sword, a hit from Helden, and another failed Control Undead. But 157 hit points in a round is enough to make anyone take a step back. Unfortunately, Hans' Stone Shape on the next round exposed enough of him for Neirida to finish him off.
Yes, they'd burned most of their high-level spells and several hundred gold pieces to kill a single wraith. But they felt awfully good about it.
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We're getting pretty October-ish. A quick status update?Vanykrye's got it mostly right: We're in Europe right now, then in August and September we should wrap up SHiro's home-brew campaign, so I'll start running Shattered Star Ocrober-ish.
However:
(1) Hi does not want to return to gaming, so he's out.
(2) Lara Croft guy is part of the regular Sunday gaming group, so he's in.
(3) Since I don't want to run another GMNPC, I invited Impus Minor to round out the foursome and he's accepted for now. We'll see how he feels when October rolls along.
We're in "Book 6" of Shiro's campaign, on our final push to the BBEG, but the monsters we're encountering are brutal. An ancient green dragon revenant taking you by surprise in total darkness so it can hit you from 240' away while your 60-120' darkvision remains useless is... no fun.
We avoided a TPK with a well-timed Wish, but yeah, we're playing every week, but it's typically a single fight.
I have a full journal for the entire campaign, so if Shiro's OK with it I'll start posting it.
In short, we're in the final stretch of the campaign, but the brutality of the fights has slowed progress to a crawl.
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OK. I have official permission to start posting Trig's journal, so I'll kick it off tomorrow.
Just keep in mind that it's written from the PC's perspective, so it'll probably be significantly harder to read than my usual campaign journals.
But, at 1 post per week and 56 sessions so far, it should at least provide reading entertainment for quite some time...
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It begins...
...and holy carp -- in the beginning Trig sounded almost NORMAL!
After 56 writeups her stuff is nigh-illegible!
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And yeah, as most of you know, Impus Major has taken over my role as a bastion of safety and stability in a sea of teenage turmoil.
We had kids who needed help over on Thursday, and Impus Major hung out with them and made sure they all went home safe and psychologically sound.
He's a good kid.
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That's because he has a fantastic role model.
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Session 62: Tomfoolery Played 03-Oct-2019
Not exactly how I feel either Lawful (looting the place you've been asked to save isn't legal) nor Good (killing victims is bad) PCs should behave. But it's what the AP expects. Over, and over, and over again.
And writing this up, it appears that I rolled utterly horrifically throughout the evening. It does surprise me just how bad it was in hindsight, but during the session I didn't note it all that much. Go figure.
Katheer, Day 1: With the wraith dead and nothing to loot on its corpse, it was time for Ivan the isitoq to go to work again. He flew around the second level of the Mysterium, looking for either the corpse of Elder Lythiin or the next angel gate. He spotted the next gate and, having no sense of smell nor See Invisibility, did not notice the guardian therein. Instead, he noted that the gate was blocked with rubble and moved on. At the end of one hallway, he came upon a barricade.
Curious, Helden snuck up to the barricade and peeked in. Inside were 6 Mysterium guards. A 31 on his Sense Motive was enough to tell Helden that they'd all lost their minds from fear; any attempt to communicate with them would likely end in violence. But they'd been stuck down here for a week, they were in bad shape, and the party was concerned for them. So Helden left some rations in the hall for them, figuring if they ever started starving and ventured forth from their self-imposed prison, they'd find the rations and be safe for a while longer until the party had reset the wards and could bring their friends and colleagues to fetch them.
The other interesting feature of the floor was a closed double door with obvious signs that the strawberry tentacle creatures had tried to break it down. Using his Gloves of Reconnaissance, Helden peered in. There, sitting terrified in the room, was none other than Miacknian Mun, with a horribly ugly winged creature standing next to him apparently trying to comfort him. He'd heard the gloves being activated, but, as the party did not try to open the door, just sat there, tense and alert, staring at the door. The party backed away to discuss what to do.
In spite of all his crimes, the party wanted to take him alive to see what he knew about Lowls. Then Helden announced that he had a plan. A terrible, awful, wonderful plan.
Using his Ring of Chameleon Power, Helden disguised himself as Lowls. After some Googling of other threads told us that Bluff was the correct skill for mimicry, Helden walked up to the door and called out, "Mun," in Lowl's voice.
So, this was easily the most hilarious, unbelievable turn of events for the evening. Mun started off rolling a 3 to detect the Bluff, failing miserably. The players had no idea, but Mun's writeup specifically says that he is "convinced that help is at hand—his old friend Lowls is sure to return with the Necronomicon soon". Mun eagerly opened the door, then rolled a natural 1 to see through Helden's disguise. "Do you have the Necronomicon?"
"Yep."
Another natural 2 to see through Helden's lie and Mun was doomed. Utterly convinced that Lowls had won over his former employees back to his side, Mun agreed to accompany the party outside. Blackwarm opened a Dimension Door, choosing to leave Neirida and Hans behind due to his limits, and Mun, Helden, Blackwarm, and Akie (Mun's homunculus companion) stepped through… right among the guards at the entry to the Mysterium!
I had everyone roll initiative, because obviously Mun wouldn't surrender without a fight, and Mun and Akie against 6 guards, Helden, and Blackwarm would be a bit of a fight. Except Helden rolled the highest initiative and said, "Oh, we've been had! We might as well give up!" and raised his hands.
Another pair of huge Diplomacy and Bluff rolls, and Helden convinced Mun that he had a plan of escape, so Mun and Akie surrendered without a fight. The guards took all three of them in custody, congratulated Blackwarm on catching the culprits, and hauled the four of them off to the prison. It wasn't until they were stripping Helden of his magic items that they removed his ring and the true Helden was revealed. At which point, as Impus Minor put it, "I kick Mun in the shins and say, 'Ha ha! <Expletive> you! You've been duped!'"
The guards had to beat Mun and Akie into unconsciousness, but being manacled does impede your combat ability quite a bit, so it wasn't much of a fight. The guards were delighted by Helden's duplicity, and asked Blackwarm and Helden whether there was anything they could do for them. Nope; they just wanted to get back to Hans and Neirida.
Blackwarm was out of Dimension Doors for the day, so they went and bought a scroll of it and returned to Hans and Neirida, who had spent some time searching the room, determined that everything they found was library property, left it, and started playing cards.
It was time to open the next angel gate.
Helden moved in first, only to be assailed and sickened by a horrific stench. He could hear something moving, so he called out, 'There's something invisible in here, and it stinks!"
Neirida, having See Invisibility up, moved in and spotted the hideous tentacled monstrosity. Hans admitted that he had nothing to expose the creature, but Neirida gave him a general area, which was enough to Flame Strike it. The fire damage didn't seem to hurt it, but the positive energy did. Blackwarm activated his Life Sight.
Then, in a single round, everything went to heck. Neirida and Helden closed with the creature, and not only did it miss its attacks of opportunity, but in a full-round attack of 5 attacks it only managed to hit Neirida once, and then rolled a natural 1 on its grapple attempt. Neirida was unimpressed. Blackwarm, ignoring his sickened condition, moved forward until it was within his sight range and tried to cast Possession. He didn't bother trying to cast defensively. The creature hit and grappled him easily enough, so he had to make a pair of concentration checks: The first, casting while damaged, he passed with ease because he had taken only 7 points of damage. The second, casting while grappled, seemed like a no-brainer; he'd need at least a 16. He rolled a 19, of course.
Finally, I rolled the creature's Will save. A natural 2, of course, and Blackwarm had a new toy.
Bundling up the now-unconscious Blackwarm like a black-feathered bedroll on Neirida's back, the party cleared the gate and turned the creepy angel heads (these ones looked hungry and had fangs). Hans commented that he was pretty much tapped out. No one paid attention to Hans; they never do.
Neirida led the way down to the next level. This one was filled with a dense fog, which Blackwarm identified as a Guards and Wards spell. There were enemies approaching through the fog…