How much bite damage does a Beast Shape II, Dire Tiger do?

[The Real Gix]

Very confused as to the damage done by a Beast Shaped' caster in beast form.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules #TOC-Natural-Attacks, which is NOT official lists "Large" animals bite as 1d6, a member of my group insists that that is what it needs to be based on.

However, it seems to me that you morph into the creature, you get it's attacks (minus bonuses)

So for example, a natural Dire Tiger has (among other things)

STR 27
Bite 2d6+8/19-20
Special Attacks: pounce, rake
Feat: Improved Critical (bite)

However, beast shape II doesn't list the feat as something that can come along, so you drop it. You also don't get the 27 STR (or it's bonus damage), you get your own +4. You DO get to keep the pounce and rake.

This leaves

STR +4
Bite 2d6
Special Attacks: pounce, rake

Other posts:

http://rpg.stackexchange.com/questions/69985/what-do-you-and-do-you-not-inh erit-from-your-new-form-when-using-wild-shape-be

http://rpgbot.net/pathfinder/characters/polymorph.php

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/magic.html#polymorph

"In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses."

[nicholas storm]

2d6+4 x2 with a 18STR; you don't get rake (beast shape 3 is needed for rake)

[Ascalaphus]

The table in the universal monster rules is the template used for monster design. It's not a hard law that every monster needs to follow.

The Dire Tiger has a bigger bite than it's equally sized cousin the regular Tiger. Because it's dire. Packs more bite in a same-sized package.

Beast Shape gives you the natural attacks of the form you turn into. It doesn't refer to the table for designing monsters in the first place. So check the monster, and hey, turns out Dire Tiger is one of the most powerful choices!

[The Real Gix]

Thank you for the replies.

What about starting from a Small size and moving up into a Dire Tiger. Would the character be expected to take two levels of penalty, or just the one for being Large?

[supervillan]

If you're referring to armour class, a small caster assuming Dire Tiger shape via a Beast Shape spell (or Wild Shape equivalent) will go from having a Size bonus to armour class of 1 (size Small), to a size penalty to armour class of 1 (size Large), for a net drop of 2 points.

Generally speaking the Beast Shape line grants bigger natural armour bonuses the larger your new form is; bigger forms also get lower DEX, but more STR.

If your starting (i.e. normal) size is not Small or Medium you have to apply extra modifiers before applying the Size bonuses or penalties in the Beast Shape spells.

pathfinder prd wrote:

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.

Creature's Original Size Str Dex Con Adjusted Size
Fine +6 –6 — Small
Diminutive +6 –4 — Small
Tiny +4 –2 — Small
Large –4 +2 –2 Medium
Huge –8 +4 –4 Medium
Gargantuan –12 +4 –6 Medium
Colossal –16 +4 –8 Medium

Edit: sorry, the table does not reproduce well: Here is the url: polymorph

[The Real Gix]

@supervillan Thanks, that makes more sense. The net is the goal, so it changes due to the fact that I lose the small bonus, which makes sense.