Shadow Enchantment question

[Hubbaman]

Hello, I have some questions concerning this spell and exactly how it works.

Shadow Enchantment:

You use material from the Shadow Plane to cast a quasi-real, illusory version of a psychic, sorcerer, or wizard enchantment spell of 2nd level or lower. Spells that deal damage or have other effects work as normal unless the affected creature succeeds at a Will save. If the disbelieved enchantment spell has a damaging effect, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur.

If recognized as a shadow enchantment, a damaging spell deals only one-fifth (20%) the normal amount of damage.

If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur. Regardless of the result of the save to disbelieve, an affected creature is also allowed any save (or spell resistance) that the spell being simulated allows, but the save DC is set according to shadow enchantment's level (3rd) rather than the spell's normal level. Objects, mindless creatures, and creatures immune to mind-affecting effects automatically succeed at their Will saves against this spell.

Shadow Enchantment, Greater:

This spell functions like shadow enchantment, except that it enables you to create partially real, illusory versions of psychic, sorcerer, or wizard enchantment spells of 5th level or lower. If the spell is recognized as a greater shadow enchantment, it's only three-fifths (60%) as effective.

First question:
"If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur."
and
"If the spell is recognized as a greater shadow enchantment, it's only three-fifths (60%) as effective."

What spells will fall under the category one-fifth as strong/tree-fifths as effective? Will a spell that usually would last for 1 rnd/level have a shorter duration or is that something that have a chance of no effect? If they have a chance of no effect, can you give an example of a spell that are less effective?

Second question:
If I use Persistent spell meta magic with this, will the target need to make 2 saves, both against the first save and then against the enchantment spell?

Thanks in advance

[Serisan]

1. It's using parallel language from Shadow Conjuration and Shadow Evocation to future-proof the spell. Damaging effects are 1/5th or 3/5ths strength. Most enchantments don't deal damage or have a variable numeric effect, so they would fall under the 1/5th or 3/5ths likely to occur. While I can't think of an example that would have reduced effect off the top of my head, the typical reduced chance spell I see is Dominate Person, which goes from being a terrible 1 round cast to a good Standard Action cast.

2. Persistent applies to any saving throw rolls for the spell. In the case of a Greater Shadow Enchantment Dominate Person, this would result in 2 saves to disbelieve, followed by 2 saves against the Dominate effect. In effect, emulating another spell adds additional saves to the Shadow Enchantment.

[Hubbaman]

Alright, I had hoped that it only cut down on those rounds, but I still like the flexibility of the spell and will use it for Spell Perfection.

Thanks for your time and explanation.

EDIT: Remembered something else I wondered about; if I use bounce spell on it, it will then bounce if I fail the SR or the save of the actual Enchantment spell or will it also bounce if I fail the 60% check?

It says that it has SR, will it always have SR or is that based on the Enchantment spell? If the Enchantment spell have SR, do I have to cast that twice?

[Serisan]

The shadow spells always have SR, even if they emulate spells that do not normally. Shadow Conjuration emulating Glitterdust is still an illusion (shadow) spell, but its effects are that of Glitterdust.

For Bouncing Spell, it's solely based on whether or not the target is affected. Partial effects cannot be bounced. If the target saves to disbelieve and you fail to affect it due to the percentage (like the GSE Dominate), you could then trigger Bouncing Spell because you had no effect on the initial target. That is sufficient for the initial trigger condition of the metamagic feat.

[Hubbaman]

Awesome. 1 SR throw and bounce whenever it fails during the throws.

Looking forward to playing this now.

Cheers