Asking for a player and sending him here to find it.
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Double Weapons: Dire flails, dwarven urgroshes, gnome hooked hammers, orc double axes, quarterstaves, and two-bladed swords are double weapons. A character can fight with both ends of a double weapon as if fighting with two weapons, but he incurs all the normal attack penalties associated with two-weapon combat, just as though the character were wielding a one-handed weapon and a light weapon.
Badly... that's why they never entered general use in our world.
Badly... that's why they never entered general use in our world.
ooo, ooo. I remember something to reference for this- thank you TV Tropes.
Here. The context is that an elf is criticizing a member of magical assassins that learned their techniques from elves ages ago. She mostly views the double bladed staff/spear/sword thing (lets admit it- a double sword with a long handle is like a double ended spear) as some gimmicky show piece to make elves look impressive, and were never meant to be used. "All the disadvantages of a spear and all the disadvantages of a short sword in one crap package."
Generally, with double weapons, you would likely want to have something blunt. One of the major things in using blades is edge alignment (since holding it kind of sideways just makes it deflect off, doing near nothing). It is impractical to get edge alignment when you are switching between ends of your sword. Also, double pointy ends are not really useful for anything, since you pretty much have to turn the weapon around, so why bother? (although some spears have a bottom pointy end for finishing off downed enemies).
A blunt end wouldn't have to worry about edge alignment, and you just smack the guy. That is why quarterstaves are popular, since they can manage this for suprise attacks. Spears can use a similar technique, which is why I like the weighted spear. Mostly just stab with a pointy end, but then you can bring the blunt end up for a smack.
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With large swirling motions.
Historically, the (eastern) blades were aligned at 90 degrees to each other and the grips were cut to optimize aligning to the target. We had chalk bars to mark hits and only the sensei could hit regularly. While the weapon is showy and 'purty' in demonstration, it simply does not hit hard enough against any target with armor. We never did any 'piercing' moves in sessions. The other 'double weapons' should require a lot more prerequisites and be crappier to boot.
Except staffs. They are really sweet 'light clubs' and never really progress much further. A quarterstaff with weighted or shod ends is about as butch as they get. A jo or bo staff functions the same, but with less mass and more speed/maneuverability. These weapons are all capable of tripping and disarming in the hands of a competent wielder. I got fussed at for using 'staff' techniques in 'spear' (yari) training. I note this was all Eastern style weaponry, no Halberds (spear/axe/spike/buttstroke/club), and I dropped out before finishing Naginata.
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Except staffs. They are really sweet 'light clubs' and never really progress much further. A quarterstaff with weighted or shod ends is about as butch as they get. A jo or bo staff functions the same, but with less mass and more speed/maneuverability. These weapons are all capable of tripping and disarming in the hands of a competent wielder. I got fussed at for using 'staff' techniques in 'spear' (yari) training. I note this was all Eastern style weaponry, no Halberds (spear/axe/spike/buttstroke/club), and I dropped out before finishing Naginata.
How long were the yari compared to the staffs? I would imagine that styles for longer spears might discourage staff style since it would be hard return to the proper thrusting stance (which is vital for longer spears, since they are often based off of keep away tactics). Perhaps it works better with shorter spears?
I've seen some work with longer axes, and the due to the recovery time the style I saw had use of the other end to allow some form of defense during recovery. I'd imagine many halberd and polearm styles have similar techniques.
We used both 6 and 8 ft yari and the longer one works less well with staff moves. I pause to note that even the 6' version is too long for close quarters work. One of the girls got a nasty crack on the head from staff training to near a guy.
We used both 6 and 8 ft yari and the longer one works less well with staff moves. I pause to note that even the 6' version is too long for close quarters work. One of the girls got a nasty crack on the head from staff training to near a guy.
Yeah, that seems like the length for professional soldiers intended to do more keep away.
I would say the length of a spear that uses staff moves would be more in the 4'-5' range. A length that would be practical indoors forhome defense. Short spears had some popularity in such a role since spears have always been rather cheap (since at that length, it is a staff with a bit of metal at the end). So in practice, it is like a guy grabbing a baseball bat to deal with a robber, only there is a pointy end to give a finishing blow.