Problems with challenging the PCs (possible Spoilers for GMs only)


Hell's Rebels

Lantern Lodge

I am running this AP on and off with another GM running Hells Vengence (we play one book then switch to the other Campaign to give us time to Prepare and a brake from constant GMing). Now we have 6 players so I've been adding additional mook here or giving the advanced template there, but I still feel like they have no challenge.

We are half way through Song of Silver, and they have had a number of Bad Guys run to fight them again. Well the 3rd time they rolled the counterattack daily occurrence where they get attacked at home, I had Hei-Fen join the assault instead of having her attacking after the PCs finished another fight. Which is made this fight into a CR 15 fight while they were 10 and still only got 2 people.

PCs were spread out in there bases and I could have gotten a few deaths if I wanted but with being threatened I don't like to still attack people who are down. had one unconscious and held person-ed. Plane shifted another to Abbadon after he made 3 saves vs. Dominate, charm, and hold. (really lucky rolls on the rogue)

My problem is they are about to go against the dragon and most maximized in the party will need a 16 or better to hit it, most will need a 18 before getting buffs to handle it. Unless I down play the dragon I don't see that fight going anywhere but a long drawn out fight that will eventually have one side run.

This AP has more wealth handed out than any other I've played up to this point. But my PCs don't realize its mostly consumables. I mean 3 raise dead and at least 1 resurrection scroll have been given to the party since they never miss any treasure. (+28 perception in the party)

Any thoughts?

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

What are you looking for, exactly? You open with what sounds like a request to make the encounters harder, but all your specific examples are about encounters you've made too hard (and by the by, a 1/3 PC kill rate is nothing to sneeze at, especially in the modern game that no longer assumes disposable PCs). Is this about finding a happy medium? Because we're probably not gonna improve on the kind of trial and error you're doing unless you get really specific about the PC builds and playstyles you're dealing with.

Lantern Lodge

Normally they walk thru everything. This one fight I had them on the ropes because they were spread out from the start and I heard non stop complaining from some of them for the difficulty of the fight.

Just looking for help to balance things out. As of right now the Dragon attack will just be a TPK since the only range they have is a rogue and I don't like playing Dragons stupid, Why would she land in the party? Fly by breath until they all die or they hide.

Lantern Lodge

I don't really have any complaint about any of their builds except the Swashbucklers, and that not a build problem. I cant ever hit him unless I throw ranged touch attacks at him. He never runs out of Panache and consistently does the most damage in the party.

group makeup

Swashbuckler
Summoner Azata Eidilon.
Ranger Sword and Board style
Cleric of Irori
Rogue focusing on Bows
Bard insane support

they are used to taking their time with event occurring once a week. and since they started this book they have not been able to keep his authority down because they want to craft stuff. So stuff has been getting rougher on them


First of all, dragons have colossal egos and this one has a particular grudge against the SR. So, it's totally in-character for this particular dragon to indulge in the delicious crunch of biting a SR in half at some point. Remember, it has regeneration going in favor for it, as well as spell resistance. It could just get overconfident from years of that kind of protection.

Second, if you want to balance this particular fight, let them pre-buff. It's not like a dragon is going to surprise them, even with invisibility, because the frightful presence aura in a city means that they just have to hear the waves of screaming citizens several blocks away to get a few rounds to buff up. In addition, her tactics allow for several rounds of buffing: breath weapon, circle, summon, mirror image, land.

Third, don't they have access to flight themselves?

Fourth, if the PCs choose a narrow street, there's not much the dragon can do other than breath weapon attacks or land and squeeze into that alley. Give that as an option.

Fifth, if you have the dragon cast a fireball early in the combat, some players will metagame and assume that they're dealing with an older dragon than they are, due to it casting a 3rd level spell. They'll be much more careful and use their best effects in this combat. It won't do much damage, but will signal to the table that this combat is special.

Lantern Lodge

Dragons can turn off there Presence if they choose as a free action. so could still get surprise. only one with a reliable fly is the Summoner. They have never needed to fly as of yet. Always just summoned flying creatures or the Eidilon took care of it.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder Adventure Path / Hell's Rebels / Problems with challenging the PCs (possible Spoilers for GMs only) All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Hell's Rebels