I See You Forgot Your Shadow Today

[Cuup]

I'm sure this isn't covered in any official rules, but this feels like the place to ask this question.

A Vampire casts no shadow or reflection, which is probably one of their biggest weaknesses when it comes to pretending to not be a Vampire, and one of a PC's greatest boons to noticing. However, I can't imagine it's something a nearby PC would automatically notice. What should the Perception DC be to notice a lack of shadow or reflection? Let's assume it's a moderately lit area with an average amount of reflective surfaces - like a fancy dinner party.

Would it be a static DC, letting higher level adventurers spot Vamps more and more easily? A Vampire would be well aware of this factor, so maybe they would do their best to move about the area in the best way to avoid more compromising positions relative to onlookers, making it scale with the Vamp's CR, showing their increased proficiency at the art? Or maybe it's just a Perception check opposed by their Stealth check (taking 10), but not to hide themselves, just their lack of shadow/reflection.

Could it be something else entirely?

[David knott 242]

It would probably vary with whether the vampire can set up the situation to his advantage. If the encounter takes place in a location that he can set up, it would be an easy matter to set up a room with no mirrors and multiple bright light sources to wash out any shadows.

If the encounter is in a random location where the vampire cannot set things up in advance, the chance of the party would depend on the lighting conditions (with the lack of a shadow being a dead giveaway if the party are carrying the only light source in the area) and whether the party are looking specifically for such signs.

In short, the GM would probably have to wing it based on very vague and broad guidelines.

[Torbyne]

I would impose a "regular" DC of around 10 and modify it based on light conditions. Remember that in Golarion, this isnt some obscure bit of legend that no one thinks would actually come up, in many places vampires are a fact of (un)life and, especially in a place where there were many shadows, this would stand out. I would also rule creation of illusionary shadow to fall under prestidigitation though so... Oh, if you really wanted to play the out of towner card or make it a little more difficult to spot only allow the perception check for PCs with trained ranks in knowledge Religion who would know the vampire shadow lore.

As far as a vampire avoiding standing in any position or area where the lack of shadow would show, i keep thinking of some kind of slap stick comedy routine :)

[Ridiculon]

There is a drawback called Umbral Unmasking with a DC for this.

[Cuup]

Ridiculon wrote:

There is a drawback called Umbral Unmasking with a DC for this.

Great source, thank you!

[Torbyne]

Ridiculon wrote:

There is a drawback called Umbral Unmasking with a DC for this.

That looks... odd. It is a Wisdom check, not a perception check?

[Ridiculon]

Torbyne wrote:

Ridiculon wrote:

There is a drawback called Umbral Unmasking with a DC for this.

That looks... odd. It is a Wisdom check, not a perception check?

The text gives a vague reasoning, also says there may be an additional perception check based on environment (GM fiat). Its part of character creation so it's pretty flavor light in favor of the player writing their own background.

IMO you could say: Perception is a measure of how much information you are able to gather from your environment, Wisdom is a measure of how well you are able to analyze the information you gain from perception in real time. You could also use intelligence if you are analyzing the information after the fact.

[Rysky]

The Vampirism Corruption from Horror Adventures has a Stain that removes your shadow, it's a DC 15 Perception check to notice.

[Tarantula]

Silent image? Just takes concentration. You could easily be at a dinner party and concentrating on having a shadow.

Or permanent image for the fancy vampires.

[Philo Pharynx]

Concentration is usually pretty obvious. I suspect a simple sense motive check would see this. You'd also have a will save to notice that it was off.

[Tarantula]

Unless you specifically tried to interact with the shadow, you wouldn't. Maybe if you were holding a torch and purposely put it near the shadow to see if it changed.

What says concentration is obvious? Spellcasting is, but is merely maintaining a spell?

[dragonhunterq]

I'm pretty sure spending a standard action apparently doing nothing would be noticeable to even passing scrutiny. whether they can determine you are concentrating rather than day dreaming would be something like a sense motive vs bluff or spellcraft (if I was feeling generous).