Quick question about CMB bonuses.

[Flame Effigy]

So somehow I never came across this little section before. Probably because it didn't list itself in the CMB formula.

Performing a Combat Maneuver:
"When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver."

Last line in particular.
So let's say I'm a guy using gauntlets as my weapons. Let's say they're +5 gauntlets.

If I attempt a grapple, am I getting a +5 from those gauntlets?
If I attempt a dirty trick, am I getting a +5 from those gauntlets?

What about a trip?

[Saethori]

No, no, yes.

Grapples and dirty tricks do not use weapons, not even unarmed strikes, so weapon enhancement bonuses do not apply to them.

Trip, Sunder, and Disarm are the only combat maneuvers that I'm aware of that can be performed with a weapon.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

Also

Blog wrote:

There is a special exception to the above rules. If you’re using a weapon with the trip special feature, and you’re attempting a drag or reposition combat maneuver (Advanced Player’s Guide 321–322), you may apply the weapon’s bonuses to the roll because trip weapons are also suitable for dragging and repositioning (this also means we don’t have to add “drag” and “reposition” weapon properties to existing weapons).

[Bob Bob Bob]

Dirty tricks can be done with a weapon, but it's entirely on a case-by-case basis, and with GM approval.

From the same blog:

Blog wrote:

Of course, the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers, such as when using a sap in a dirty trick maneuver to hit an opponent in a sensitive spot.

By default, without any language saying otherwise, you can use weapons (and the bonuses from) on trip, disarm, and sunder; and drag and reposition (but only if it's a trip weapon); and dirty trick (if the GM says so). One exception I know of is Shield Slam (uses shield to bull rush, says to use the same attack bonus as the shield), I'm sure there are others.

[Flame Effigy]

Ugh. Case by case bases are the worst.

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Belafon wrote:

Quote:

Disarm, sunder, and trip are normally the only kinds of combat maneuvers in which you’re actually using a weapon (natural weapons and unarmed strikes are considered weapons for this purpose) to perform the maneuver, and therefore the weapon’s bonuses (enhancement bonuses, feats such as Weapon Focus, fighter weapon training, and so on) apply to the roll.

So... My monk has Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and is wearing an Amulet of Mighty Fists +1. Does this mean he gets to add those two bonuses to other Combat Maneuvers such as Grapple?

I'd file that under "the GM is free to rule that in certain circumstances, a creature can apply weapon bonuses for these maneuvers."

Sean K Reynolds wrote:

Belafon wrote:

Belafon wrote:

So... My monk has Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) and is wearing an Amulet of Mighty Fists +1. Does this mean he gets to add those two bonuses to other Combat Maneuvers such as Grapple?

I'm gonna confer with Jason before I post an official answer about this one.

So did this just never get cleared up, or.

I'm sure the answer is no, because I never see it mentioned anywhere.

[Bob Bob Bob]

It was a pain in the @#$ to track down, but here's the post from PDT. It's a no. Grapple is a combat maneuver, unarmed strike (and natural attacks) are a "weapon". They don't intersect (unless you have something saying they do).

[Flame Effigy]

Thanks!

[Purplefixer]

Dan Bong is a weapon that gives a +1 to grapple attempts.

If you attempt a grapple without two free hands, you take a -4.

Does that mean wielding a dan bong gives you a total of -3?

Grappling already gives you a -2 to your CMD, making it easier for your targets to escape you. Shouldn't there be SOME benefit for grappling style characters that adds magical enhancements to their grappling ability? If not the amulet of mighty fists, then body wrap of mighty strikes?

Surely the dan bong isn't designed to make you a 'slightly less effective grappler' while being wielded, so shouldn't grapple attempts made while wielding a +3 dan bong give a +4 bonus?

[dragonhunterq]

Purplefixer wrote:

Dan Bong is a weapon that gives a +1 to grapple attempts.

If you attempt a grapple without two free hands, you take a -4.

Does that mean wielding a dan bong gives you a total of -3?

Grappling already gives you a -2 to your CMD, making it easier for your targets to escape you. Shouldn't there be SOME benefit for grappling style characters that adds magical enhancements to their grappling ability? If not the amulet of mighty fists, then body wrap of mighty strikes?

Surely the dan bong isn't designed to make you a 'slightly less effective grappler' while being wielded, so shouldn't grapple attempts made while wielding a +3 dan bong give a +4 bonus?

I'm of the view that any sensible GM would rule that you don't take the -4 when wielding a dan bong. A GM ruling otherwise would get a "really?!" to go along with the raised eyebrow from me.