Lv10 - Slayer 6 / Red Mantis Assasin 4; Advice wanted!


Advice


I was hoping that some friendly people could help me with my Red Mantis Assassin

Specifically, I'm looking for advice on my spells. General advice is appreciated though.

I'm using the Cleaner Archetype and am also a VMC Rakshasa Bloodline Sorcerer.

This is my first time ever building a PrC, so I'm a little lost. I don't care if my build is the MOST OPTIMIZED EVER, but I'd like to be useful in and out of combat enough that I won't be dead weight. Preferences for out of combat power over in combat power, though.


Is this character already built? If not have you considered straight Stygian Slayer? The Red Mantis assassin PRC is very flavorful but the prayer attack has a rather low DC and it's not full BAB.

If you want to stick with the PrC I imagine you'll get good milage out of vanish, mirror image, blur, displacement - although by the level you get them foes will often have counter measures.

Liberty's Edge

Yeah, Stygian Slayer is a solid alternative, and even if going Red Mantis Assassin, you really want a 7th level of Slayer. Being able to use Studied Target as a Swift Action rather than a Move Action is too good to pass up.

I also wouldn't be super inclined to make a Dex 10 Red Mantis. Or, indeed, a Dex 10 much of anything that doesn't wear Plate. Your defenses are...pretty crappy.

As an alternative, have you considered going Vigilante into Red Mantis, or even just straight-up Vigilante? They synergy is probably better even if you do go with the Prestige Class, the secret identity thing is very in-theme, and there are several cool things you can do with that build (Lethal Grace and going Dex based is one good option, for example, or arranging to not take Armor Check penalties).


The issue with going a Dex build is that Sawtooth Sabers were errata'd to only be Light for purposes of dual wielding penalties; they aren't eligible targets for Weapon Finesse or I'd go UnRogue instead.

Liberty's Edge

StygianRose wrote:
The issue with going a Dex build is that Sawtooth Sabers were errata'd to only be Light for purposes of dual wielding penalties; they aren't eligible targets for Weapon Finesse or I'd go UnRogue instead.

Right. I always forget that bit.

Still, more Dex or heavy armor remains a good plan if doable. And, frankly, it's probably doable one way or another.


I could switch my 14 Con to Dex, but is that worth losing 20hp for +2 AC, Ref, Init, and some skills?

Sadly, heavy armor is a no-no as RMA can only cast w/o spell failure in light armor.

I went Slayer for the pre-reqless TWF feats, and picked it over ranger because I dont like Fav. Enemy or Fav. Terrain.

Liberty's Edge

StygianRose wrote:
I could switch my 14 Con to Dex, but is that worth losing 20hp for +2 AC, Ref, Init, and some skills?

I'd probably ditch some Cha instead. Prayer Attacks are almost never gonna go off anyway (and have a mediocre Save DC at best even with all the effort you've put in), which means you can ignore them and only need enough for spells...which is way less than an 18. You can thus skip the Ability Focus too for something more directly useful.

And you can also get more AC from it than that with a Belt of Physical Perfection. Add in a Mithral Breastplate and you're good to go.

StygianRose wrote:
Sadly, heavy armor is a no-no as RMA can only cast w/o spell failure in light armor.

Assuming you go actually go with the Prestige Class, this is true.

StygianRose wrote:
I went Slayer for the pre-reqless TWF feats, and picked it over ranger because I dont like Fav. Enemy or Fav. Terrain.

It's a solid choice...but I'd really take that 7th level. Swift Action Studied Target is too good to pass up.


I actually went with the prestige class / built this character specifically to make use of Prayer Attack, and the Monster Creation table seemed to imply that my save DC was passable, if not amazing.

It is really disheartening to know otherwise.

Liberty's Edge

StygianRose wrote:

I actually went with the prestige class / built this character specifically to make use of Prayer Attack, and the Monster Creation table seemed to imply that my save DC was passable, if not amazing.

It is really disheartening to know otherwise.

The problem with Prayer Attack is the nature of most Pathfinder games. It's actually amazing for one assassin vs. one foe, assuming it works, and the DC is mediocre rather than actually awful, and if you're alone with them, failure is a death sentence for them.

However, in an adventuring party, the very existence of other PCs tends to give them at least one extra Save to escape in any combat involving more than one enemy, and that drops your odds to...well, something like a 1/4 chance of killing a single low Will Save foe. Which is not great. And every additional Save drops that by half again (so, 1/8, 1/16, etc.). Plus, people can shake them free as a Standard Action, so there's that too.

Debatably (and depending on GM) concentrating to maintain it may also be a Standard Action (as per the Concentration spell duration). Which makes it a terrible idea even more of the time. That one's game dependent, though.

In short, it's actually great for doing what the Red Mantis do in-world (assassinating lone targets)...but terrible the vast majority of the time in a PC group.


I want to thank you for your help, Deadman! You've provided very insightful and helpful advice.

Liberty's Edge

StygianRose wrote:
I want to thank you for your help, Deadman! You've provided very insightful and helpful advice.

You're quite welcome. I'm always happy to be of assistance. :)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Lv10 - Slayer 6 / Red Mantis Assasin 4; Advice wanted! All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.