Find Traps spell and Demonic Horde (and similar cards)

[Vintorez]

Hello, my friends and I picked up the Wrath of the Righteous Base game not too long ago and have been enjoying it greatly, but had a situation where we couldn't agree on an answer.

The question boils down to whether we can use Find Traps to aid in the combat check to defeat the demons summoned by the Demonic Horde barrier.

Half of us argued that because the demons themselves aren't a barrier, you can't use it.

The other half argued that because defeating the demons is required to defeat the barrier, you can use it. To fit with the story telling of it, they said it's like using the spell to detect the demons early and getting a preemptive strike.

Some more experienced help on the matter is greatly appreciated.

[zayzayem]

Unfortunately while the check to defeat the demon is indeed in order to defeat a barrier, the check itself is still a check against a monster, not a barrier.

[Irgy]

Find Traps only works on a check to defeat a barrier, as written in the "to defeat" box. It's a similar issue in Skulls and Shackles with the barrier that summons a ship, and various other examples. It's a general rule that cards only do what they say, not something abstractly and conceptually related.

So unfortunately it's no use.

Edit - ugh how do I manage to get ninja'd on a one minute answer to a two and a half hour old question?

[elcoderdude]

I agree with the previous posters. Find Traps helps with your check to defeat a barrier. But when you encounter a Demonic Horde, you are not making a check to defeat a barrier; you are making a check to defeat a monster. The fact that defeating the monsters defeats the barrier doesn't matter for Find Traps.

(You could make a thematic argument for anything, really....)

I looked for a relevant FAQ, but the closest I found is the one on the Blessing of Gozreh. This blessing adds two dice to a check to close a location. If you have to defeat a monster to close the location, the blessing does not add two dice to that check. Gozreh FAQ

[skizzerz]

The most relevant rules are found in the back of the book:

Cards Do What They Say: Find Traps says it adds 2 dice to defeat a barrier. The demons you are making the checks against are not barriers.

Cards Don't Do What They Don't Say: Find Traps doesn't say anything about adding dice to cards summoned by barriers, it only works on barriers themselves.

Cards Don't Have Memories: Find Traps doesn't "remember" that a barrier summoned the demons, so it can't say "aha I'm actually trying to beat a barrier after all!". All it knows is that you are currently fighting a demon, which is not a barrier, and as such it goes off to sit in a corner.