Synthesist Summoner and Eidolon HP

[HalcyonDaze]

Please Check My Logic here:

The FAQ has clarified that a Synthesist's Fused Eidolon gives the Summoner Temporary Hit Points (equal to the Eidolon's HP)when summoned, rather than offering actual hit points in any way, which complicates how you can heal an Eidolon (see link for full text). Separately the Fused Eidolon entry states that if this pool of temporary HP are depleted, the Eidolon is killed and returns to its native plane, at which point it's reduced to half HP when it returns. It sounds like, by the RAW, this means that the Eidolon creature/outsider's own HP are not actually affected during normal combat until the moment those Temporary HP are fully depleted (barring maybe a Sunder attempt or some such?).

That would mean that if the Synthesist had even one of the Temporary HP left he could, with enough time, dismiss his Eidolon (standard action) and re-summon it (typically 1 minute ritual or the Summon Eidolon Spell) and he'd receive a full pool of Temporary Hit Points once again. The only time he'd need to heal the Eidolon (by using the Eidolon specific spells) would be if it were actually slain (via loss of all Temporary HP or some other series of circumstances that would affect the outsider).

Does that work under the RAW?

[Buri Reborn]

HalcyonDaze wrote:

It sounds like, by the RAW, this means that the Eidolon creature/outsider's own HP are not actually affected during normal combat until the moment those Temporary HP are fully depleted (barring maybe a Sunder attempt or some such?).

This is incorrect. You're reading something into it that's not there. The temp HP is the eidolon HP.

So...

HalcyonDaze wrote:

That would mean that if the Synthesist had even one of the Temporary HP left he could, with enough time, dismiss his Eidolon (standard action) and re-summon it (typically 1 minute ritual or the Summon Eidolon Spell) and he'd receive a full pool of Temporary Hit Points once again.

This is false.

[Amrel]

The misconception that the Eidolon's Hp counting as temp hp for the player means that its Hp is temporary with respect to itself. This isn't the case.

When the eidolon takes damage, its hp is reduced. Since the player gets to add the Eidolon's current Hp as temp hp for itself, its temp hp goes down.

[Gjorbjond]

I'm pretty sure you summon the eidolon the same way with a synthesist as with a regular summoner. It's a 1 minute ritual that summons it with the same HP it had when it was dismissed. If it's killed, it comes back at 1/2 HP when summoned the next day and you have to cast Rejuvenate Eidolon to bring it back to full health.

[HalcyonDaze]

Gjorbjond wrote:

I'm pretty sure you summon the eidolon the same way with a synthesist as with a regular summoner. It's a 1 minute ritual that summons it with the same HP it had when it was dismissed. If it's killed, it comes back at 1/2 HP when summoned the next day and you have to cast Rejuvenate Eidolon to bring it back to full health.

Absolutely. The question here is whether the fused summoner taking taking damage that reduces the granted pool of temporary HP also simultaneously reduce that actual Hit Points of the outsider entity, which is what determines how many Temporary Hit Points are granted at the time of summoning/fusion. If the Outsider never takes actual HP damage until the moment that the "kill condition" of the Summoner's Temp Hit Point pool reaching Zero, then dismissing and re-summoning the Eidolon would reset the Temporary Hit Point Pool before any event happens that would affect the actual Outsider's HP.

Amrel wrote:

The misconception that the Eidolon's Hp counting as temp hp for the player means that its Hp is temporary with respect to itself. This isn't the case.

When the eidolon takes damage, its hp is reduced. Since the player gets to add the eidolon's current Hp as temp hp for itself, its temp hp goes down.

Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. I dont think the Outsider itself gets Temporary hit points or anything, it's just that by my read the Ousider's actual HP dont actually ever take damage unless and until something otherwise unrelated happens, specifically that the Summoner uses up the Temporary Hit Points it grants when it is summoned, which then triggers a banishment and is sent back to it's home plane. At that point it would come back at half-HP so it would only be able to grant half the normal amount of HP.

[Amrel]

HalcyonDaze wrote:

Amrel wrote:

The misconception that the Eidolon's Hp counting as temp hp for the player means that its Hp is temporary with respect to itself. This isn't the case.

When the eidolon takes damage, its hp is reduced. Since the player gets to add the eidolon's current Hp as temp hp for itself, its temp hp goes down.

Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say here. I dont think the Outsider itself gets Temporary hit points or anything, it's just that by my read the Ousider's actual HP dont actually ever take damage unless and until something otherwise unrelated happens, specifically that the Summoner uses up the Temporary Hit Points it grants when it is summoned, which then triggers a banishment and is sent back to it's home plane. At that point it would come back at half-HP so it would only be able to grant half the normal amount of HP.

My apologies for the confusion.

While the faq language isn't as clear on this, the actual rules entry for the synthesist archetype state that the synthesist gains the eidolon’s hit points as temporary hit points. This is different than saying that the summoner gains a number of temp hp equal to the eidolon's hp. In the case of the synthesist, the temp hp he/she gets is directly tied to the amount of hp his/her Eidolon has, not just when summoning the eidolon, but for the whole time he/she is wearing the suit.

The thing to take away from this is that the temp hp that the summoner gets is the eidolon's actual hp. When you take damage, the Eidolon actually loses hp. That translates into a loss of temporary hp for the player, because the player gets to add the eidolon's health to his/her own as temp hp.