Golarion: The Anime?


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Dryad Knotwood wrote:
and 2 cours for Overlord

Say what now? Last I heard there was only a single cour of Overlord, since it had only thirteen episodes (not counting the Play Play Pleiades shorts and the forthcoming OVA).


Alzrius wrote:
Dryad Knotwood wrote:
and 2 cours for Overlord
Say what now? Last I heard there was only a single cour of Overlord, since it had only thirteen episodes (not counting the Play Play Pleiades shorts and the forthcoming OVA).

You're right, my bad. I was thinking of Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dryad Knotwood wrote:
Alzrius wrote:
Dryad Knotwood wrote:
and 2 cours for Overlord
Say what now? Last I heard there was only a single cour of Overlord, since it had only thirteen episodes (not counting the Play Play Pleiades shorts and the forthcoming OVA).
You're right, my bad. I was thinking of Gate: Thus the JSDF Fought.

No worries, Gate is awesome too (though I found the overt nationalism to contrast oddly with the theme of realpolitik).


mangamuscle wrote:


Sundakan wrote:

Fun as it would seem, I doubt it would work. Animation is EXPENSIVE. And so is advertising. And making deals with people to air it.

For what return?

You make it sound like this idea is somehow novel and new. Yet for decades already, many light novels (which are books, just like the core rulebook) have been adapted into anime. This summer season alone I can count four (light) novel adaptions http://www.livechart.me/summer-2016/tv Don't make the assumption that only the award winning and/or most popular prose is ever made into an anime. The clear example here is Konosuba (God's Blessing on This Wonderful World! which is not about religion in the same vein The World God Only Knows isn't) which was a basically unknown, with low sales; ok, it got a low budget animation with only 11 episodes (one of the which was not broadcast and was included with the next light novel volume to maximize sales) but it was better than the old D&D cartoon by any metric you choose.

If it was such a low return endeavor we would not see each and every season...

There is a very large difference between a novel (particularly light novels, which are already very picture heavy) and a rulebook. This should not need to be pointed out.

Likewise, there is already a steady pipeline of manga/light novel to anime, just like there is a pretty steady one for book to movie. Because studios see these properties and choose to adapt them.

As far as I know, there aren't any studios clamoring to make a Pathfinder anime, or even western animated series. So the entire burden of planning, funding, writing, and distributing would fall on Paizo to organize and shop out as they see fit.

Paizo is not that big of a company.

There would have to be a tangible, nigh-guaranteed return from doing this.

I don't see that.


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Sundakan wrote:
There is a very large difference between a novel (particularly light novels, which are already very picture heavy) and a rulebook.

I dunno if you can call light novels "very picture heavy." Your typical light novel will have around a dozen illustrations, most of which will be black and white.

I suppose that's very picture heavy compared to a full novel that has no illustrations whatsoever besides the cover, but unto itself that doesn't seem like an apt description.


Alzrius wrote:
Sundakan wrote:
There is a very large difference between a novel (particularly light novels, which are already very picture heavy) and a rulebook.

I dunno if you can call light novels "very picture heavy." Your typical light novel will have around a dozen illustrations, most of which will be black and white.

I suppose that's very picture heavy compared to a full novel that has no illustrations whatsoever besides the cover, but unto itself that doesn't seem like an apt description.

Ah, right, my mistake. I get visual novels and light novels confused sometimes.

Regardless, the point still stands.


Johnnycat93 wrote:
Why not push for a western adaption? It'd be a lot easier without so many hurtles.

Let's just think for a moment that going for the asian market is too much for Paizo to handle, that they will wait another decade to see if some Japanese publisher will pick pathfinder for local translation. That does not change the fact that for decades now, most animation is made in Asia (Japan, Korea, China and I heard lately even the Philippines and Vietnam). Yeah, even most of the cartoon network and nickelodeon franchises. For high quality animation you need to hire a japanese anime studio, unless of course you are ok with a another piece of the (lack of) quality of Dragonlance: Dragons of Autumn Twilight.

Also, for a western cartoon there is a higher hurdle, there is the expectation that it can't have graphic violence, blood or the so called adult themes (sex, drugs, politics and foul language). This on an adaption of table game that borrows a lot of elements from Robert E. Howard Conan, seems like a waste.


But paizo already shirks away from most of those topics. A western animation is more conducive to the way pathfinder already tells stories. There arent as many localization issues and, frankly, it's a real pain to sell western products to japan.


Sundakan wrote:
Likewise, there is already a steady pipeline of manga/light novel to anime, just like there is a pretty steady one for book to movie. Because studios see these properties and choose to adapt them.

That is a very common misconception. As I said before, most anime studios are work for hire, no different from american comic writers/cartoonists, they are paid a fixed amount since they do not own the intellectual property they work on.

You do not have to take my word for it. In example, Attack on Titan animation production was made by newcomer Studio Wit (if they had known it would be a mega hit inside and outside of japan they would not have chosen a newcomer studio). But the royalties are not for Studio Wit, if you look under Production (the proper name is Production Committee) you will see SEVEN company names (Kodansha, the manga publisher among them) http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/anime.php?id=14950 , those are the ones that distribute the royalties.

So no, most anime studios are not in the look for what to produce, when we speak of light novel adaptions it is japanese publishers (like Kondansha, Kadokawa or Shogakukan), with one or two other investors (i.e. outside investors and music companies, which btw want to use anime to push their contracted musicians) the one placing the money because it has already been established that it is (at least in japan) a good investment to make animes out of intellectual properties they own.

p.s. From where I stand the difference between a pathfinder book and a light novel is that most paizo books are hardcovers and have more illustrations (in color) than a light novel.

Johnnycat93 wrote:
it's a real pain to sell western products to japan.

I can assure you that at first it was a real pain for Nintendo to sell their videogames to america for the very same reasons you mention, but it is clear to see that it was they right choice, with the added bonus that there is no big competitor (Atari at the time was huge) for Paizo in the tabletop rpg business (WotC has yet to translat 5e to other languages) in Asia.


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On the other hand microsoft has yet to gain a major foothold in japanese sales. Also, Japan has its own RPG market that they sell japanese made products on (Golden Sky Stories, Double Cross, LOG Horizon RPG). Theres a reason that DnDs popularity drops sharply outside of the US and western europe. Paizo is not nearly as prolific as nintendo and cant necessarily afford huge risks, as Sundakan said. I may be cynical but I just dont see reason to consider a pathfinder anime as a serious prospect. It's about as likely as Palladium actually getting a movie.


Johnnycat93 wrote:
On the other hand microsoft has yet to gain a major foothold in japanese sales.

That is akin to saying "Russia has not invaded Ukraine". Back in the day japan had their own pc hardware and operative system (made by NEC) but they were utterly defeated by Microsoft Windows, whatever games/visual novels not made for consoles are written nowadays to run in microsoft windows.

Quote:
Also, Japan has its own RPG market that they sell japanese made products on (Golden Sky Stories, Double Cross, LOG Horizon RPG). Theres a reason that DnDs popularity drops sharply outside of the US and western europe.

And the reason is because neither TSR (WotC/Hasbro) nor Paizo has entered said markets, you can't say that it is because they have tried and failed due to the oh so strong local offerings.

Quote:
Paizo is not nearly as prolific as nintendo

Today, but back in the 80s they were not as big as today.

Quote:
and cant necessarily afford huge risks, as Sundakan said. I may be cynical but I just dont see reason to consider a pathfinder anime as a serious prospect. It's about as likely as Palladium actually getting a movie.

From where I stand all I see is FUD. No surprise there on the palladium ip movie, hollywood had the rights to the parasyte manga for a decade and did not made a movie, so when the rights expired japan made two live action movies AND a two cour anime series. Hollywood is not revolutionary, they are slow to make new things, still remember how many believed the LotR movie would be a flop, but nowadays they only want to do sequels of it.

Dark Archive

To add, I believe Overlord is getting a second season.

As well, I think David Production should animate it. To give an example...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o49oS5grMlo

or this....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7h0r6sYPLEI

ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA ORA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But even the RPG adaption of Robotech (a hugely succesful anime/spin-off) isn't played in Japan. Have you considered that the reason that there hasnt been a japanese translation in nearly forty years is that there isn't a viable market? It's a lot easier to sell somethong that somebody wants rather than getting people to want what youre selling.


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NenkotaMoon wrote:
To add, I believe Overlord is getting a second season.

Citation please? Nothing would make me happier, but I can't seem to find confirmation of this.


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Johnnycat93 wrote:
But even the RPG adaption of Robotech (a hugely succesful anime/spin-off) isn't played in Japan.

This is a bit off topic, but Robotech does not exist, it was a Frankestein made of three different anime series (Macross, Southern Cross & Mospeda), sewed together by Carl Macek. To make things worse, Robotech (as a legal entity) is the reason we do not see any of the new Macross anime. No, that is not old news, right as we speak, the latest cour (Macross Delta http://youtu.be/9lYKrckqNa4 ) is being broadcast in japan, but it will not be streamed in America for the previously stated reasons. If you want more info you can pm me or google it. So no go, trying to sell anything with the Robotech label in japan will be met with a cease and desist letter.

Quote:
Have you considered that the reason that there hasnt been a japanese translation in nearly forty years is that there isn't a viable market?

I can clearly picture it, how more than a decade ago when doing a sale pitch for a Lord of the Rings movie the very same argument was used, but instead of four decades they would be talking of nearly six and to add insult to injury, they would mention the cheap Ralph Bashiki adaption who was neither popular nor award winning.

Quote:
It's a lot easier to sell somethong that somebody wants rather than getting people to want what youre selling.

Under that line of thinking, anything that uses electricity from the light bulb down to your smartphone would have never seen the light of day. Any business has always a level of uncertainty, specially if is something no one else has done before.


Your own line of thinking is the same reason Gygax sunk TSR. You can no more prove that an anime adaption of pathfinder would be a success than I can a failure. Following that, what is there to gain in such a huge gamble? Id rather see paizo stick to their guns, maybe even try and scoop up other ips and do RPG adaptions of that.


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Johnnycat93 wrote:
Your own line of thinking is the same reason Gygax sunk TSR.

When Gary Gygax was booted from TSR, it was a perfectly healthy company which did not go bankrupt for doing the D&D cartoons (which back then were more expensive since there was no CGI and coloring was made by brush). BTW, said cartoon was animated by Toei http://youtu.be/5xOoWEFBOx8 , which years later would do Dragonball Z and Sailor Moon.

Alzrius wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
To add, I believe Overlord is getting a second season.
Citation please? Nothing would make me happier, but I can't seem to find confirmation of this.

AFAIK there will be a chibi OVA http://youtu.be/NSU6Rpb9b0A bundled with the latest light novel. It is worth to mention that it has become common to do cheap flash manufactured episodes at the same time the actual series airs, Re:Zero has made to explain things about the fantasy world and Overlord has been doing it to show the funnier side of the series.


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mangamuscle wrote:
Alzrius wrote:
NenkotaMoon wrote:
To add, I believe Overlord is getting a second season.
Citation please? Nothing would make me happier, but I can't seem to find confirmation of this.
AFAIK there will be a chibi OVA http://youtu.be/NSU6Rpb9b0A bundled with the latest light novel. It is worth to mention that it has become common to do cheap flash manufactured episodes at the same time the actual series airs, Re:Zero has made to explain things about the fantasy world and Overlord has been doing it to show the funnier side of the series.

Yeah, that's the Play Play Pleiades OVA that I'd mentioned previously. But that's not a second cour.

Dark Archive

Johnnycat93 wrote:

Your own line of thinking is the same reason Gygax sunk TSR. You can no more prove that an anime adaption of pathfinder would be a success than I can a failure. Following that, what is there to gain in such a huge gamble? Id rather see paizo stick to their guns, maybe even try and scoop up other ips and do RPG adaptions of that.

From what I've read Gygax didn't sink the company. Bad choice of management of which wanted nothing more than to get rid of him screwed the company, as he ended up getting the boot. As well, some of those same people ended up investing in some truly bad ideas, of which lead to its demise.

Read the wonderful biography "Empire of Imagination" for more on that.

Silver Crusade

mangamuscle wrote:

Lately there have been quite a bit anime adaptions of light novels with fantasy rpg elements (Grimgar, Overlod), not to mention animes about card games (Rage of Bahamut: Genesis, Wixoss) or computer games (Hyperdimension Neptunia, Tales of Zestiria).

It is quite obvious that this animated series are 24 minutes advertisements, so it boggles the mind that Paizo has not done their own. It would help to improve sales of many products.

I don't hate the idea, but does it have to be a toy commercial? It can tell the story of the comics or something without trying to make me buy "rise of the moe schoolgirls" adventure path right?

Silver Crusade

Also, in an effort to completely derail the conversation, I always thought that A Song of Ice and Fire anime could work better than a live action tv show.

I mean a brooding bastard dressed in black with a big sword and a wolf. A beautiful, silver haired prince dragging his nation to civil war over passion. A young girl who lost her family training to be a mystic assassin. It animus itself. Almost foolproof really.

I mean assuming they handle the eroticism maturely and don't make a show for only fourteen year old boys.

Or do something really gross like try to make Ramsey Bolton Super Kewl Pet Villain... oh, wait.


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I know this isn't really representative of the whole community but, almost every game of pathfinder I've seen on roll20 has had some anime theme. Leads me to believe that some market exists.

Silver Crusade

mangamuscle wrote:
IF Paizo can't afford an anime (which seems odd to me since WotC can afford a live-action movie),

To be fair, those movies looked like they cost as much as an average larp with worse acting.


Zahien von Haxenmont wrote:
mangamuscle wrote:
IF Paizo can't afford an anime (which seems odd to me since WotC can afford a live-action movie),
To be fair, those movies looked like they cost as much as an average larp with worse acting.

I think they are talking about the new D&D movie in the works which is being described as "Guardians of the Galaxy meets Forgotten Realms".

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