| JAMRenaissance |
Hey all,
I'm working on a tech-based class for a homegrown game I'm running. As background, the idea of the world is that it is at the end of a magical age and moving to a technology one, where certain gods (Moradin, Laduger, Boccob, and Mystra) have embraced the future while others cling to the past. Finally a new god, The God of Numbers is emerging. A friend of mine that designed this world created a specific cleric to the God of Numbers, what I later called the Divine Engineer, which is a guy that was meant to combine spells with tech devices. As I took over the world for my campaign, I began abstracting the idea of a Da Vinci-style character to match my (slightly modified) Alchemist in this world - Alchemists are masters of chemistry and biology, while the new class would be masters of physics and engineering. I'm trying to keep it as much as possible to either "things that would be energy based" or "things that would follow as extensions of normal physics laws. Again, there's meant to be a whole "science vs magic" thing going with this world.
So, with this as an idea and a lot of inspiration from Ultimate Intrigue and the integration of "superheroes", this abstracted idea of a Divine Engineer became the Futurist, or "Leonardo da Vinci as an Action Hero". From there, Divine Engineer became an archetype, with others for Armored Technologist (Iron Man), Clockwork Constructionist (your T.O. Morrow / Will Magnus types), Firearms Empath (Deadshot) and Tech Burglar (Ant-Man).
I'd like thoughts in general about the idea, as well as ideas for higher level Innovations. I petered out in my ideas around level 11.
So, here is The Futurist
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Have you ever looked at the machinesmith?
| Aralicia |
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Foreword
Have you looked at NeoExodus' Machinesmith, or Thunderscape's Mechamage and Steamwright ? All of them are good inspiration (thunderscape also add the Golemoid and Thunder Scout as technologic classes).
Analysis - Names
A few names are strange, the most notable being "Futurist", and variants around it. It looks strange in-lore, for a character to be able to craft "stuff that'll exists in the future".
Analysis - Basics
Dead Levels
Dead Levels are levels without new features (note that in this context, new spells count as features). Dead Levels are considered a bad thing, because it leaves the player with the feeling to not really progressing. The Futurist as quite a few dead levels, including both level 5 and 6 (I am aware that Applied Engineering gives the ability to disarm magical traps at level 5, but it still feel empty because it is only shown in the description of the 2nd level feature).
BAB, HD & Saves
3/4 bab and d8 hd is fitting for this class. Why high Fortitude, though ?
Weapon & Armor Proficiencies
Weapon proficiencies are good. However, the futurist being proficient in all armors seems strange. You also don't talk about tower shield. Usually, when a class is proficient with shield, it is explicitelly said if it is also proficient with tower shields.
Analysis - Features
Futuristic Crafting
This feature seems to allow the use of Knowledge (Engineering) in place of any other Craft - including Craft(armor) and Craft(weapon); it is acceptable, but was it intended ? The text is a bit messy because it tries to alter three set of mechanics (mundane crafting, magical crafting, and placing spells on items) in a single paragraph. It may be better to separate each of them in different paragraph.
Numeric Inspiration
While it is a variant of the investigator's inspiration, the text doesn't indicate that it count as inspiration, meaning that Feats that have inspiration as a prerequisite cannot be taken but the Futurist.
Innovations
This feature works like the various talents, but are fewer than usual (where a usual "Talent" class has 9-10 talents, the Futurist has only 6 innovations); is there a reason for that, given that a few of the innovations are simply "get a Talent" ?
Some innovations are clearly missing requirement (you can technically take a Grenade Innovation without having Grenadier).
The concept of innovations overriding previous version feels very wierd, and create a strange situation were a character can suddenly make Major Mimicries when he never ever showed any ability for mimicries before. I think you should either have one Innovation that improves over time, or the various levels stack over each other as is usual for similar talents/feats.
The Foundational Implement/Futuristic Schools seems to be a big part of the concept of the class, especially given the amount of work that went in it. Is there a reason why it is an innovation, and not a separate Feature ?
Extra Power Supply
This feature is not described. In addition, Since power supply is only used through a Foundational Implement, a Futurist without the Foundational Implement Innovation gain Extra Power Supply for a feature he doesn't have.
Living Paradox
This capstone is very wierd given that very few of the class features before it hint to the fact that the character change his own body. Typically, the features are centered around creating technolocigal items, not changing your own body. This concept would probably work better as a Futurist Archetype or School, rather than as a capstone whose concept doesn't really match with the rest of the class.
Conclusion
There is some good ideas to the class, but the overall design seems to lack a bit of rigor.
There is a heavy focus on the skill Knowledge (Engineering), but makes thoses checks mostly trivial (a 10th-level Futurist automatically succeed DD30 checks).
The presence of two point pools (Inspiration and Power Supply) for a single class may make it a bit harder to manage than most other classes.
Recommandations
You should rework the innovations, primarily by removing Foundational Implement from it and making it a main feature for the class. This will also allow the removal of some of the dead levels.
The capstone doesn't fit the rest of the class and should probably also be changed.
| JAMRenaissance |
First off, THANK YOU BOTH! This has been some of the best crowd-sourced input I've gotten on anything online ever. You've also sold a pdf of the NeoExodus' Machinesmith; I have a game to run on Sunday, and then I'll look at it as well as the other options mentioned.
Analysis - Names
A few names are strange, the most notable being "Futurist", and variants around it. It looks strange in-lore, for a character to be able to craft "stuff that'll exists in the future".
Good point. The name stuck in my head after "Captain America: Civil War". Hawkeye calls Iron Man that derisively at one stage.
Analysis - Basics
Dead Levels
Dead Levels are levels without new features (note that in this context, new spells count as features). Dead Levels are considered a bad thing, because it leaves the player with the feeling to not really progressing. The Futurist as quite a few dead levels, including both level 5 and 6 (I am aware that Applied Engineering gives the ability to disarm magical traps at level 5, but it still feel empty because it is only shown in the description of the 2nd level feature).
When I look back at the "Man... I should have caught that" things, this will be number one. You are TOTALLY right that the player should never have a level where all they are getting is more plusses. Part of the problem for me is that I ran out of ideas around midlevel. This is fine, as I think I'd be surprised if I ran a campaign past 13th level anyway, but it still leaves holes. Plus, I may have overestimated the power I was giving Innovations.
This will be priority #1 to address as we go.
BAB, HD & Saves
3/4 bab and d8 hd is fitting for this class. Why high Fortitude, though ?
It was "legacy". When the guy that first came up with the Divine Engineer concept came up with it, it was based on a Cleric. It's not a big thing in any way.
Weapon & Armor Proficiencies
Weapon proficiencies are good. However, the futurist being proficient in all armors seems strange. You also don't talk about tower shield. Usually, when a class is proficient with shield, it is explicitelly said if it is also proficient with tower shields.
There was a line I was walking between the understanding of how moving parts work and the dexterity/strength needed to use things well. My thought was that a solid understanding of how the parts of an armor should work would justify even the heavy armor proficiency, but not necessarily justify weapons or tower shields, for which that innate knowledge isn't as helpful. As well, it seemed like a unique balance from a design standpoint. It's also not a piece I'm quite a strong about.
Analysis - Features
Futuristic Crafting
This feature seems to allow the use of Knowledge (Engineering) in place of any other Craft - including Craft(armor) and Craft(weapon); it is acceptable, but was it intended ? The text is a bit messy because it tries to alter three set of mechanics (mundane crafting, magical crafting, and placing spells on items) in a single paragraph. It may be better to separate each of them in different paragraph.
Yeah, I have to work on that. Much (about 80% of this class) was coded in PCGen before I actually wrote any documentation. That was one of the last minute add-ons that I really only slipped in there to make sure the rules appeared on the player's character sheet.
The idea is set up the analogy of Craft (Alchemy) is to Alchemists as Knowledge (Engineering) is to Futurists, especially in regards to the spread of skill points. The Futurist isn't meant to need to put points into Craft(Explosives), as an example; Knowledge (Engineering) covers everything for him. I'll make a note to separate out what that means into distinct paragraphs.
Numeric Inspiration
Numeric Inspiration
While it is a variant of the investigator's inspiration, the text doesn't indicate that it count as inspiration, meaning that Feats that have inspiration as a prerequisite cannot be taken but the Futurist.
I'll make a note to make explicit that it counts as Inspiration for the purposes of taking Inspiration Feats.
Innovations
This feature works like the various talents, but are fewer than usual (where a usual "Talent" class has 9-10 talents, the Futurist has only 6 innovations); is there a reason for that, given that a few of the innovations are simply "get a Talent" ?
I didn't have a unit that was less than an Innovation that I deemed worthy of getting a talent. I also considered it to be nine, since Foundational Implement really covers four different things.
With that in mind, though, the idea was that Innovations were really the equivalent of a Oracle's Revelations - less frequent, but more powerful. Still, though... with the exception of the Clockwork stuff, which I'll discuss below, it could definitely be argued that an Innovation is roughly the equivalent mid-to-high level "Talent".
So, adjustment number one will be to follow your advice and give Foundational Implement for free at first. You can't be much of a future person without a future gadget, right? From there, instead of going 1/3/7/11/15 like Revelations, I'll pull back to the standard talent every other odd level. That way, I can redistribute the other features to the even levels and better spread things around. There will be more Innovations, but if they are really not THAT much more powerful than Talents...
Some innovations are clearly missing requirement (you can technically take a Grenade Innovation without having Grenadier).
The concept of innovations overriding previous version feels very wierd, and create a strange situation were a character can suddenly make Major Mimicries when he never ever showed any ability for mimicries before. I think you should either have one Innovation that improves over time, or the various levels stack over each other as is usual for similar talents/feats.
Part of that is me not full documenting from PCGen, so I'll fix that.
The Mimicries thing is interesting. Inner Sea Intrigue introduced an archetype called a Tinkerer, for which Clockwork Mimicries is a class feature. She gets it at 14th level, and she can basically create a wondrous item. I decided that was cool, and scaled it down so that it would more realistically see play in a campaign I'd run. That lead to the interesting question - if this is actually meant to be used for Major items, what would be wrong with letting someone jump straight Medium items? Plus, with only four options in a realistic campaign (1/3/7/11), having to drop two of them on something seemed like a lot. The "replacement" thing is a play on how some of the Vigilante Talents let you replace out a feat if it gives it to you for free.
That said, the thought of prerequisites is a lot more palatable when you are getting them every other level.
The Foundational Implement/Futuristic Schools seems to be a big part of the concept of the class, especially given the amount of work that went in it. Is there a reason why it is an innovation, and not a separate Feature ?
Sometimes you don't expect to fill a brand new implement school with gun stuff when you start down one of these roads. :) That's really it; what started as a simple way to steal ideas from the Psychometrist has now pretty much become the defining class feature. So... yes, Foundational Implement becomes a first level class feature in the move to more Innovations.
Extra Power Supply
This feature is not described. In addition, Since power supply is only used through a Foundational Implement, a Futurist without the Foundational Implement Innovation gain Extra Power Supply for a feature he doesn't have.
And making everyone take Foundational Implement now makes this actually work! I'm thinking of adding in some specific Power Supple based abilities to add on levels where EPS is given, so that it isn't just MOar PluSSes!
Living Paradox
This capstone is very wierd given that very few of the class features before it hint to the fact that the character change his own body. Typically, the features are centered around creating technolocigal items, not changing your own body. This concept would probably work better as a Futurist Archetype or School, rather than as a capstone whose concept doesn't really match with the rest of the class.
I simply couldn't think of anything better, so I went with the closest thing I could find, which at that time was the Impossible Bloodline's capstone.
Dude... this has been INCREDIBLY helpful. Thank you!
| JAMRenaissance |
Necroing things, as I have another pass through of the class written for my Martial-Caster Disparity House Ruleset. I got rid of the dead levels, tried to better integrate Power Supply into the system, and tried to set up a system where the futurist can make minor tweaks to equipment with a lower level of complexity. I also thought of more/better high level tech based powers (clockwork golems as familiars!). Please, if it's not a problem, give me some more insight into the Futurist.
Yes, I know a lot of stuff may shift dramatically once Starfinder is out. That said, this is more "guy that can create Bubo from Clash of the Titans" than the genuine future setting of Starfinder.
| JAMRenaissance |
Have you seen Starfinder yet?
Yes, I reference it right above your post. :)
I expect to crib a lot from Starfinder, but ultimately it is going TOO far in that direction. Being able to have a Clockwork Golem as a familiar is a 17th level ability; we're not going to touch traveling between stars.