Advice on Draconic Monk / Sorcerer

[KingOfAnything]

I got inspired by the new Legacy of Dragons book to make a Charisma based Monk/Sorcerer. The alternative bloodline arcana for imperial dragons gives a bonus against shaken, frightened or panicked foes, so I included an Intimidate focus.

This character is a Tian half-elf descended from the ruling family of Xa Hoi. He studied martial arts in the ranks of the imperial army before his magical abilities expressed themselves. He takes after his Sovereign Dragon heritage in many ways, not the least of which is the divine wind his mightily destructive voice.

I'm looking for advice on feats, spell options, and items. This build is mostly for flavor, but anything to make it more effective is welcome.

Here is a sample build (without items) I've been tinkering with:

LN Unchained Monk(Scaled Fist) 2/Sorcerer(Eldritch Scrapper) 4/ Dragon Disciple 2:

Half-Elf (humanoid(elf), dragon)
STR 15 (+1 @8) (+2 DD) = 18
DEX 12
CON 12
INT 12
WIS 10
CHA 15+2 (+1 @4) = 18

AC(w/mage armor): 19 t: 15 ff: 18
Fort: +6 Ref: +6 Will: +5 (+2 v. fear, sleep, paralysis )

Flurry: +7/+7 ( 1d6+8/6 )
Claws: +9/+9 ( 1d4+4 )
Ranged: +6

Traits: Magical Knack (Sorcerer), Omen( 1/day swift action demoralize)
Feats:
1. Mercenary Company Tattoos (take 10 Intimidate)
B. Dragon Style
M: Improved Unarmed Strike
3: Shocking Bellow (surprise round: free action Intimidate)
B. Intimidating Prowess (add Str to Intimidate)
5. Draconic Manifestation ( while claws active: +2 Intimidate. Immune to fear)
7. Dragon Ferocity
Bl: Improved Initiative

Skills (28 ranks +2 FCB):
Acrobatics 11 ( 7 ranks, 3 class, 1 Dex )
Intimidate 22 ( 8 ranks, 3 class, 4 Cha, 4 Str, 1 trait, [2 feat] )
Know(arcana) 9 ( 5 ranks, 3 class, 1 Int )
Perception 11 ( 8 ranks, 3 class, 0 Wis )
Spellcraft 5 ( 1 rank, 3 class, 1 Int )
Use Magic Device 8 ( 1 rank, 3 class, 4 Cha )

Spells (CL 8):
1- mage armor*, charm person, chill touch, ear-piercing scream, true strike,
2- resist energy*, mirror image, scorching ray

Class Abilities:
AC Bonus (equal to Cha), Evasion, Flurry of Blows, Stunning Fist( 3/day DC 18),
Martial Flexibility (Combat Feat, or Arcane Strike, Combat Casting) 5/day 1 minute
Bloodline Weapon (9 rds/day claws 1d4 + Str)
Bloodline Arcana(Draconic [Imperial, Sovereign]): Whenever you cast a spell that affects a creature with the shaken, frightened, or panicked condition, increase the spell’s save DC by 1.

[Chess Pwn]

Half-elves have an option Kindred-Raised to get a bonus to str and cha.

[KingOfAnything]

I did see the Kindred Raised option, but it doesn't stack with the Dragon Soul alternate racial trait. I didn't feel it was worth the flavor change. Otherwise, it would be a no-brainer.

Any opinion on going Crossblooded(Arcane) instead of Eldritch Scrapper? I was thinking that an arcane bonded amulet would be handy for a cheaper Amulet of Mighty Fists.

[Chess Pwn]

depends if you want more caster or more fighter.

If fighty I'd suggest 4 monk/2monk and 2 full bab class like bloodrager and 1 sorcerer into DD or 3 monk and 2 sorcerer into DD.

If casty, you probably only should go 1 level of monk. 4 sorcerer and DD.

I think you could pass on the AoMF, you get greater magic weapon that works instead of an AoMF.

Another option for fighty is a few levels of monk and go into bloodrager. and then DD if wanted.

[KingOfAnything]

I was going more for a switch hitter feel, but I'd say caster if I had to pick between the two. I'll consider dropping a monk level, but I like the bonus feat and evasion a lot.

I was thinking of weapon enhancements like cruel or menacing on the AoMF, not just atk/dmg.

[Imbicatus]

I wouldn't take crossblooded. The fewer spells known really hurt a pure sorcerer, not to mention one that is losing several CLs from monk and DD.

I'm just wondering if a single class bloody knuckled rowdy or blood counduit bloodrager would be a better fit for the concept mechanically than a monk DD.

[KingOfAnything]

Monk was mostly for dragon flavor + armor bonus.

Blood Conduit bloodrager is pretty cool. I think I lean more to the casting side than the beat-'em-up side, though. I would be frustrated with the spell progression.

[BadBird]

Crossblooded is useful if you have a very specific goal in mind, like using Elemental(Cold) to convert Fiery Shuriken into Rime [Cold] Fiery Shuriken, taking Opening Volley, and then debuffing foes with swift-action no-save entangled while gaining a +4 to any attack that follows a shuriken. Or taking Fey and specializing in Persistant Hideous Laughter and Confusion, with Laughing Touch available.

Personally I'd probably go weapon-based, but that's just because I prefer Power Attack sword-flurry to fists. For an unarmed flurry character, there's nothing preventing them from simultaneously wielding a polearm for reach attacks and flurrying punches.

[Chess Pwn]

So here's my personal view of the matter.

Switch hitting doesn't work.

If you're focusing on spellcasting then all this combat dipping is making you worse at your deal. And think, if you were to take your original guy at lv8, what is your actions for the first 3 rounds of combat? Is it, haste, dazzling display, some spells against the now shaken foes? If so it'd be better to go full sorcerer, having the draconic bloodline still makes you quite draconic.

If you're combat focused then I can see the build working out okay. Go monk levels for nice combat stuff, take sorcerer for free mage armor, and go DD to scale the mage armor duration and get other nice buff spells. But going this route means you don't really do anything with your bloodline arcana, because it wont be all that useful. attacking is a better option than an attack spell. Sure you can throw out a fireball or something, but that's not switch hitting, that's using a spell as your backup bow.

But part of the issue too is that monk doesn't work well with natural attacks, as you don't use your flurry when using natural attacks.

So my recommendation that I kinda stole from elsewhere is, plan out your mid level, like this level 8, and see what you feel your primary means of contributing in a fight are. What are you doing the first 3-5 rounds of combat? Once you know that, build to do that well.

[BadBird]

It's definitely true that you shouldn't go about creating a Dragon Disciple with the idea that fighting is going to be a secondary thing. A Sorc4/Disciple has a fair deal of spell power to toss around, but it should be very focused on doing one or two specialized spellcasting things very well, and it should see them as merely the opening moves of a battle.

Starting a fight by throwing a specialized Draconic/Elemental Bloodline Rime Fireball, or tossing Fey Bloodline buffed Confusion, or even just incinerating something with a Draconic Bloodline Empowered Scorching Ray is a great opener; but then you should be putting all that bonus strength to work.

For me, the ideal basic Dragon Disciple build is going to go something like Urban Barbarian 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Dragon Disciple 4 and then mostly Eldritch Knight to maintain casting levels and BAB. Instead of messing around with CHA/day natural attacks, they use their absolutely titanic STR from Rage (with some Extra Rage) and Dragon Disciple to hack things into tidy gobs with a two-hander. Typically they cast a spell or two and then turn on Rage and don't look back; they will already have Heroism and maybe something like Monstrous Physique I: Gargoyle running before combat.

There are plenty of possible variations on this theme, but the formula is always the same - a bit of buffing, a bit of highly specialized casting, and then a killing spree. It can still be a powerful caster, but that's only the beginning, as it were.

[KingOfAnything]

Thanks for your insight. I'll play around with my feats, put in Power Attack, Cornugan Smash possibly, and go 4 monk/ 2 sorc instead. I'll stick with fists for Dragon Style.

[Dragonchess Player]

Monk 2/sorcerer 4/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10.

You lose ki and some of the flurry attacks, but end with +16 BAB and spells as a 16th-level sorcerer (8th-level for form of the dragon III). The eldritch knight bonus combat feats can be used for style feats (as style feats are combat feats).

[Imbicatus]

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Monk 2/sorcerer 4/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10.

You lose ki and some of the flurry attacks, but end with +16 BAB and spells as a 16th-level sorcerer (8th-level for form of the dragon III). The eldritch knight bonus combat feats can be used for style feats (as style feats are combat feats).

Except you can't qualify for EK, as you are not proficient in all martial weapons.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

Imbicatus wrote:

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Monk 2/sorcerer 4/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10.

You lose ki and some of the flurry attacks, but end with +16 BAB and spells as a 16th-level sorcerer (8th-level for form of the dragon III). The eldritch knight bonus combat feats can be used for style feats (as style feats are combat feats).

Except you can't qualify for EK, as you are not proficient in all martial weapons.

A drop of a level in a martial class is indicated...Barbarian or bloodrager would be appropriate.

[BadBird]

If you're using a very low spell progression like Monk4/Sorc2/DD where you're only going to have level 2 spells by level 9 and not that high a caster level, you probably aren't going to be doing any specialized spellcasting. Scorching Ray is level 2, but even with Magical Knack it would take a long, long time to reach it's full potential at caster level 11. A character like that should just focus on whatever buffing/utility they can squeeze out of their meagre spellcasting power; there's nothing wrong with that, they're just not much of a spellcaster.

I've played around with trying to create the ideal combination of magic/fighting with a Disciple, and the latest version goes something like:

Dual Talent Human: 16/18STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 8WIS, 14/16CHA.
Urban Barbarian 1/ Crossblooded Draconic/Fey Sorcerer 4-6, Gold Dragon Disciple 4/ Eldritch Knight
Traits: Magical Knack & Wayang Spellhunter: Hideous Laughter

1B. Extra Rage
2S. ~Laughing Touch Power
3S. Weapon Focus
4S. ~Draconic Resistances Power, *Draconic AC+1
5S. Arcane Armor Training (mithral kikko)
6DD
7DD. +DD:Power Attack / Persistent Spell / *Draconic AC+2, STR+2
8DD
9DD. Extra Rage / *Draconic AC+3, STR+4
10S. ~Fleeting Glance Power, *Draconic AC+4
11EK. +EK: Improved Critical / Cornugon Smash
...etc.

Notable offensive spells: (Heightened?) Persistent Hideous Laughter (level 3+, +2DC), (Heightened?) (Persistent?) Confusion (+2DC), Scorching Ray (+1/die), Fireball (+1/die). Also Laughing Touch power, eventually with a Conductive cestus.

Since both Sorcerer and Disciple are high will save, the will penalties aren't critical. Caster level with Magical Knack never falls below character level -1. Persistent Hideous Laughter and Confusion break plenty of brains with the Fey DC boost and ongoing metamagic optimization. 30+ STR with a Furious two-handed weapon goes crunch.

[Dragonchess Player]

Imbicatus wrote:

Dragonchess Player wrote:

Monk 2/sorcerer 4/dragon disciple 4/eldritch knight 10.

You lose ki and some of the flurry attacks, but end with +16 BAB and spells as a 16th-level sorcerer (8th-level for form of the dragon III). The eldritch knight bonus combat feats can be used for style feats (as style feats are combat feats).

Except you can't qualify for EK, as you are not proficient in all martial weapons.

Sorry, I was thinking sohei monk for that progression.

[Ventnor]

Unfortunately, Sohei and Scaled Fist don't stack, since both replace Quivering Palm.