Storm of Blades, how does it work?


Rules Questions


Hi everyone. I found a interesting spell called Storm of Blades. But I'm not quite sure about its mechanism.

1 In description it says "You create floating swords of the type used as the material component for this spell (such as a rapier or scimitar)". So what does "type" means actually?
2 What about the size of the swords the spell creates? The same as the one used as material?
3 What about special materials? Could I create silver swords to bypass DR/silver?
4 How does the spell interact with feats and class features that modify weapon attacks, such as weapon focus and perfect strike(kensai)?
Perfect strike

Spoiler:

Perfect Strike (Ex)
At 4th level, when a kensai hits with his chosen weapon, he can spend 1 point from his arcane pool in order to maximize his weapon damage. Don’t roll for damage—the weapon deals maximum damage. This affects only the weapon’s base damage dice, not additional damage from sneak attack, magical weapon properties, spellstrike, or critical hits. If the kensai confirms a critical hit, he can instead spend 2 points from his arcane pool to increase his weapon’s critical multiplier by 1.
This ability replaces spell recall.

5 Could the spell be empowered?
6 How does the spell interact with feats and class features that modify ranged attacks, such as deadly aim?

Scarab Sages

1) If you use a longsword as the material component, the swords created use the same stats as the longsword used. (i.e., a small size longsword creates small sized longswords, etc.)

2) See 1. Basically, if you use an adamantine longsword, it creates adamantine longswords.

3) See 2.

4) You're still making attacks with weapons, albeit conjured weapons, so any applicable feats should work.

5) It should be able to be empowered, but that's a pretty poor spell to empower, so I don't care much either way.

6) Yes, because they're ranged weapon attacks.


To really get the most out of Storm of Blades, you'd need lots of weapon damage bonuses in play to trigger off of each "shot". A Warpriest with the Destruction Blessing and Divine Favor is probably the only way to get some truly great numbers out of it.

Edit: Actually, Champion of the Faith Warpriest. Throw some Smite on that spell and you're really in business.

Liberty's Edge

Davor wrote:

1) If you use a longsword as the material component, the swords created use the same stats as the longsword used. (i.e., a small size longsword creates small sized longswords, etc.)

2) See 1. Basically, if you use an adamantine longsword, it creates adamantine longswords.

3) See 2.

4) You're still making attacks with weapons, albeit conjured weapons, so any applicable feats should work.

5) It should be able to be empowered, but that's a pretty poor spell to empower, so I don't care much either way.

6) Yes, because they're ranged weapon attacks.

2-3) I disagree, "type" has nothing to do with "material" or "quality".

If you use an adamantine sword you still get normal swords. Size is part of the type, so you will create a small longsword if you use one as a material component.

4) No, you aren't attacking with the weapon, nor you are wielding it in any way. You are casting a spell. Feat and class abilities related to using a weapon don't work (there can be exceptions, but as a general rule they don't apply when casting a spell if it is the spell that do the attack).

5) Doubtful. What are the " variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls."?
Not the number of blades.
Not the damage (if is dependent on the weapon created, not the spell).

6) Yes, they work, it is a ranged attack.

Scarab Sages

Diego Rossi wrote:

2-3) I disagree, "type" has nothing to do with "material" or "quality".
If you use an adamantine sword you still get normal swords. Size is part of the type, so you will create a small longsword if you use one as a material component.

4) No, you aren't attacking with the weapon, nor you are wielding it in any way. You are casting a spell. Feat and class abilities related to using a weapon don't work (there can be exceptions, but as a general rule they don't apply when casting a spell if it is the spell that do the attack).

5) Doubtful. What are the " variable, numeric effects of an empowered spell are increased by half, including bonuses to those dice rolls."?
Not the number of blades.
Not the damage (if is dependent on the weapon created, not the spell).

6) Yes, they work, it is a ranged attack.

2-3) So, what makes a material less a part of the weapon? What is the default weapon created? By default, all melee weapons are made primarily of either an unspecified wood or steel. Are the swords created by the spell always made of steel? How can they be if they don't inherit the material properties of the weapon on which they're based?

4) To quote the spell: "You make a ranged attack roll for each sword (with no penalties for range increments or using melee weapons as ranged weapons),..." That's an attack roll with a weapon, which should be affected by feats and abilities normally, mostly because it lacks the clarifying language that would negate it, specifically used in a spell like Spiritual Weapon.

5) That's fair. The argument could be made that the number of swords is a variable numeric effect, but w/e.

6) Why would you say something that's directly contrary to your ruling with question 4?

Liberty's Edge

Davor wrote:


2-3) So, what makes a material less a part of the weapon? What is the default weapon created? By default, all melee weapons are made primarily of either an unspecified wood or steel. Are the swords created by the spell always made of steel? How can they be if they don't inherit the material properties of the weapon on which they're based?

The spell create a sword of the same type. As it don't specify further, it is a generic model of that type, and a generic rapier is made of steel, wood and leather.

Davor wrote:


4) To quote the spell: "You make a ranged attack roll for each sword (with no penalties for range increments or using melee weapons as ranged weapons),..." That's an attack roll with a weapon, which should be affected by feats and abilities normally, mostly because it lacks the clarifying language that would negate it, specifically used in a spell like Spiritual Weapon.
D20PFSRD wrote:
You create floating swords of the type used as the material component for this spell (such as a rapier or scimitar) and magically propel them at your target.

The spell is using the swords. Not you.

Davor wrote:


5) That's fair. The argument could be made that the number of swords is a variable numeric effect, but w/e.

No, it is not a variable. A variable is 1d8 or some such, not 1 each 2 levels.

Davor wrote:


6) Why would you say something that's directly contrary to your ruling with question 4?

Because it applies to completely different things.

"You can use abilities that depend on using a specific weapon? No."
"You can use abilities that relate to ranged attacks? Yes."
If you don't see the difference, you need to read again the rules of the game.


FAQ wrote:

Ray: Do rays count as weapons for the purpose of spells and effects that affect weapons?

Yes. (See also this FAQ item for a similar question about rays and weapon feats.)

For example, a bard's inspire courage says it affects "weapon damage rolls," which is worded that way so don't try to add the bonus to a spell like fireball. However, rays are treated as weapons, whether they're from spells, a monster ability, a class ability, or some other source, so the inspire courage bonus applies to ray attack rolls and ray damage rolls.

The same rule applies to weapon-like spells such as flame blade, mage's sword, and spiritual weapon--effects that affect weapons work on these spells.

There's no question that Storm of Blades benefits from anything that will benefit a weapon making a ranged attack.

Also, Storm of Blades damage is measured in damage dice, which is a "variable, numeric effect" created by the spell.

Grand Lodge

BadBird wrote:
Also, Storm of Blades damage is measured in damage dice, which is a "variable, numeric effect" created by the spell.

I don't believe that is correct, as the spell adds more swords, not more dice. You can empower something that deals damage, not something that summons things that deals damage.

Scarab Sages

Diego Rossi wrote:

---

The spell create a sword of the same type. As it don't specify further, it is a generic model of that type, and a generic rapier is made of steel, wood and leather.

---

D20PFSRD wrote:
You create floating swords of the type used as the material component for this spell (such as a rapier or scimitar) and magically propel them at your target.

The spell is using the swords. Not you.

---

Because it applies to completely different things.
"You can use abilities that depend on using a specific weapon? No."
"You can use abilities that relate to ranged attacks? Yes."
If you don't see the difference, you need to read again the rules of the game.

The spell also doesn't say anything about "a generic model of its type." You still haven't explained what makes a steel sword more like the cold-iron sword I used as a material component than a cold-iron sword, and if they are equally of the same type, then the RAI would indicate that it's intended to duplicate the weapon consumed in the process of casting the spell.

If the spell is using the swords, then I would like to know the spell's bonus to ranged attack rolls, since it is apparently a completely different "you" than that to which the spell itself refers.

Is it a weapon? Yes. Am I making a ranged attack with said weapon? Yes. It doesn't matter if I'm using magic, or a bow, or the broken corpse of a rubber pixie as slingshot, I'm still making the attack, with this weapon, and I get to ignore the penalties for using such a weapon in different way, as is spelled out by the spell.


TriOmegaZero wrote:
BadBird wrote:
Also, Storm of Blades damage is measured in damage dice, which is a "variable, numeric effect" created by the spell.
I don't believe that is correct, as the spell adds more swords, not more dice. You can empower something that deals damage, not something that summons things that deals damage.

Acid Arrow, or Corrosive Touch, or Stone Discus, or Snowball are all Conjuration(creation) spells that summon something that does damage.

Stone Discus and Scorching Ray, among other spells, only increase number of shots/objects/etc and not actual dice/level.

If these aren't obstacles to empowering those spells...

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Storm of Blades, how does it work? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions