Shapeshifter Homebrew Base Class


Homebrew and House Rules

Grand Lodge

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Here's one I've been working on. Feedback is very welcome!

Some questions I'd really like to hear answered:

1. Is it balanced? If not, how would you balance it?
2. Would you ever play this class instead of a druid?
3. I know the list of adaptations needs a few more options; what would you add?

Shapeshifter

Perplexing scholars for ages, there are some rare individuals in the world with the natural ability to change shape at will without the need of arcane magic or divine blessings. As they learn to control their talents, these versatile enigmas can become even more powerful than the creatures they emulate, which is usually accompanied by the increasing fear and distrust of the community they once called home.

Role: The ability to change form at will gives shapeshifters the unique ability to modify their tactics whenever they please, clawing enemies with multiple attacks one round and flying into the sky on the next, only to return as a poisonous snake a round later. Outside of combat, their shapeshifting abilities make them natural infiltrators, able to pass unnoticed wherever they please.

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8
Starting Wealth: 2d6 x 10gp (average 70 gp), plus an outfit worth 10 gp or less.

Class Skills
The shapeshifter’s skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (Nature), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks Per Level: 4 + Int modifier.

Base Attack Bonus: Medium
Good Saving Throws: Fort, Ref
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Shapeshifters are proficient with all simple weapons, light armor, and shields (except tower shields). They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with shapeshift (see below).

Special Abilities:

Shapeshift (Ex): At 1st level, the shapeshifter learns how to change her form at will, per the beast shape I spell. This is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The shapeshifter loses the ability to speak and cast spells while in animal form because she is limited to the sounds and gestures a normal, untrained animal can make, but she can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form.

At 4th level, this ability functions like the beast shape II spell.

At 7th level, this ability functions like the beast shape III spell.

At 12th level, this ability functions like the beast shape IV spell.

At 20th level, the shapeshifter can assume the form of a fine or gargantuan creature. This ability otherwise functions like Beast Shape IV.

Adaptation (Ex): At 2nd level and every even level thereafter, the shapeshifter gains an adaptation from the list below.

    Broad Wings: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +10 foot increase to her fly speed. This adaptation only functions for animal forms that have a base fly speed. This bonus increases by +10 feet at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains a +2 competence bonus on Acrobatics skill checks made to jump or reduce falling damage.

    Enduring Resolve: The shapeshifter gains 5 temporary hit points whenever she changes into an animal form. These temporary hit points do not stack, though additional shapeshifts can replenish the total amount. At 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter, this amount increases by +5. While in her base form, she gains the benefits of the Endurance feat.

    Instinctual Maneuver: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +2 bonus on any combat maneuver emulated by an ability of her animal form. This bonus increases by +2 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains the benefits of the Combat Expertise feat.

    Instinctual Skill: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +2 bonus on one of the following skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Escape Artist, Fly, Intimidate, Stealth, Survival, or Swim. This skill is set when this adaptation is chosen and cannot change. This bonus increases by +2 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. This adaptation can be selected multiple times, but must be applied to a different skill each time. While in her base form, she gains a +2 competence bonus on all aid another actions and increases the bonus granted when successful by +1 when aiding another with any of these skills.

    Keen Senses: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +1 bonus on Perception and Survival skill checks. These bonuses increase by +1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, the shapeshifter gains the scent special ability.

    Maiming Attacks: While in animal form, the shapeshifter causes 1d6 points of bleed damage whenever she scores a critical hit with a primary natural attack. This bonus increases by +1d6 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she can extend or retract claws as a free action, allowing her unarmed attacks to count as natural weapons and deal lethal damage.

    Night Eyes: While in animal form, the shapeshifter always gains low-light vision and darkvision up to 60 feet. The range of her darkvision increases by 15 feet at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains low-light vision.

    Nimble Feet: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +5 foot increase to her base speed. This bonus increases by +5 feet at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains the benefit of the Run feat.

    Rapid Climber: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +10 foot increase to her climb speed. This adaptation only functions for animal forms that have a base climb speed. This bonus increases by +10 feet at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains a +2 competence bonus on Climb skill checks and can accelerate her climb speed at no penalty.

    Savage Attacks: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +1 bonus on all secondary natural attack rolls. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains the benefits of the Improved Unarmed Strike feat.[/b]

    Thick Hide: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +1 bonus to her natural armor. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she suffers no harm from being in cold environments.

    Untamable Spirit: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +2 bonus on all Will saving throws. This bonus increases by +2 at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains the benefits of the Iron Will feat.

    Wide Fins: While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +10 foot increase to her swim speed. This adaptation only functions for animal forms that have a base swim speed. This bonus increases by +10 feet at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains the ability to breathe normally underwater.

    Faceshift (Ex): At 2nd level, the shapeshifter can make a Disguise skill checks as a standard action and gains a +1 competence bonus per odd shapeshifter level. This ability only functions while the shapeshifter is her base form.

Beast Speech (Ex): At 3rd level, the shapeshifter can communicate normally, but not cast spells, while shapeshifted.

Moving Shapeshift (Ex): At 7th level, the shapeshifter can shapeshift as part of a move action.

Swift Shapeshift (Ex): At 13th level, the shapeshifter can shapeshift as a swift action.

Immediate Shapeshift (Ex): At 20th level, the shapeshifter can shapeshift as an immediate action.


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I've considered doing something similar before, and I like the concept. However, I think your implementation is looking rather weak.

First of all, the class's raw power seems to be very low for a non-caster. While you can do a lot of cool stuff with at-will abilities that isn't possible with limited-use abilities, this does little for the class's combat power. In many ways, this is a similar problem that the core Monk and Rogue have; lots of at-will class features do not redeem a class that's weak in combat. I'd say the easiest fix here is to move to full base attack bonus and add more class features with an eye to keep its combat potential reliable.

Secondly, this class has very few class features in general. Multi-classing out after the 13th would be pretty much mandatory because of just how barren it is. You definitely need a lot more class features up there, and the shapeshifting has to continue progressing past beast shape IV. More powerful Adaptations are also necessary; the ones you currently have are fairly lackluster, with only three really good ones.

Thirdly, the progression you have is much too slow. While this class does get its shapeshifting earlier than the Druid, the Druid quickly catches up and even surpasses it in some ways. Given that the Druid also is a full 9-level spellcaster and gets an animal companion this is not acceptable, even if the Shifter were moved to full base attack bonus. If shapeshifting is to be the one-and-only class feature this class gets, being comparable to the Druid is completely insufficient; it needs to be completely and unambiguously superior to the Druid. This means Beast Shape II should be available no later than the 4th level, and it should improve every 2 levels thereafter and can't stop at beast Shape IV.

adaptation feedback:

General criticism: most of the effects that apply only in your base form are pretty useless. This is a class that gets at-will shapeshifting. Why does the ability to breath water in my base form matter when I can become a fish as a standard action? +2 bonus to climb speed? I can become a monkey. Running? I can become a cheetah. This is a lot of text and rules to keep in mind for something that will probably never come up. Also, Adaptations that give you "the effect of a feat" when you are in your base form are kind of weird. Either give the feat as a bonus feat so it can be used normally for prerequisites, or don't give it at all.

Broad Wings: very poor; fly speeds are already pretty fast. Waste of an Adaptation.

Enduring Resolve: This is a problematic ability. That's a lot of tanking potential and it can be refilled without limit between every combat encounter. Once you get Swift Action shifting, however, it becomes completely broken since it can be activated every single round.

Instinctual Maneuver: This is very unclear. What exactly do you mean by "any combat maneuver emulated by an ability of her animal form"? In any case, the numbers grow a bit too large at higher levels; A +10 bonus to combat maneuvers at the 20th level is kind of insane. The Combat Expertise rider is largely useless; as you've phrased it here you can't use Combat Expertise to meet prerequisites for other feats, which is the only reason that 99% of characters will ever want it.

Instinctual Skill: I don't particularly like the scaling, but unlike combat maneuvers it's less likely to be an issue if these are a bit too high. Notably Stealth and Intimidate are much better than the other skills here.

Keen Senses Perception is a very good skill, but the numerical benefit here is pretty scant. Scent in the bases form is pretty much useless since you have at-will shapeshifting into forms that have the scent special.

Maiming Attacks: Natural weapons have pathetic critical hit ranges. Only worthwhile with the Improved Critical feat, and even then pretty lackluster.

Night Eyes: Circumstantial, seeing as most parties will carry a light source for party members who lack darkvision. That said, many animal forms you might want to use don't have darkvision so if you're the odd man out in your party it might be useful.

Nimble Feet: Like Broad Wings, most forms have pretty good move speed if you want it. Not worth an adaptation, although if there's a particularly slow form you really like I could see it might have some applicability (unlike fly speed, where virtually everything is really fast to begin with)

Rapid Climber: Climb speed is situational to begin with and given that we're talking about a class that can shapeshift into a flying form at-will at the 1st level it's extremely situational.

Savage Attacks: This is an extremely weird ability because of how it interacts with the Multiattack feat. If you can get that feat, then this adaptation allows you to potentially make secondary attacks have a bonus rather than a penalty. I'd say eliminate this Adaptation and instead create a Multiattack Adaptation that gives the Multiattack feat as a bonus feat.

Thick Hide: I'd say specifically state "as if under the effect of the Endure Elements spell", otherwise this looks solid.

Untamable Spirit: Way too big a numerical bonus. Keep it to a flat +2; stacking with Iron Will makes it pretty good as-is.

Wide Fins Most swim speeds are pretty fast, so like the other move speed boost Adaptations it's pretty circumstantial. Again, the ability to While in animal form, the shapeshifter gains a +10 foot increase to her swim speed. This adaptation only functions for animal forms that have a base swim speed. This bonus increases by +10 feet at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. While in her base form, she gains the ability to breathe normally underwater.

Faceshift Standard action disguises are kinda cool, but also a bit situational. Given how few class features this class has, I'd probably just give him Disguise Self or even Alter Self as a spell-like ability.

Tired now and I'm traveling again tomorrow. I'll see if I can drop by and give some specific advice for new class features or Adaptations later.

Liberty's Edge

You might also check out the New Paths Compendium from Kobold Press.

One of the new classes within, The Skin-Changer does much of what you are trying for here :)

Grand Lodge

Dasrak wrote:
I've considered doing something similar before, and I like the concept.

Awesome reply and great points all around. I'll be implementing most of it.

Instead of going full BAB though, I think I'll provide a scaling bonus on all natural attacks. I think full BAB should be reserved for trained martial trained classes.

Maybe use your level as your BAB while shapeshifted? Hmm...

Grand Lodge

As for the purpose of the base form abilities, I wanted to ensure that characters didn't feel like they always needed to be in animal form to contribute, especially in social situations or other instances where being a wolf, shark, or gorilla might be problematic.

Also, there might be times where you really need to use a magical adamantine weapon to harm an enemy or use a specific piece of armor for some reason. I didn't want shapeshifters to be like "well crap, I guess I'll wait outside while you guys deal with that monster that's immune to non-magical weapons."

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There's a lot of issues with this class.

1) It's a d8 HD 3/4 BAB class with no spellcasting and a very low feature scope. There's just not enough content and statistics here to support 20 levels.

2) It gets an at-will 3rd level spell effect as an extraordinary ability. The reason the druid doesn't get wildshape until 4th level is because beast shape is a 3rd level spell. It's a 3rd level spell because it gives you access to powerful abilities like flight and climb speeds. In addition, turning into an animal is not a 1st level ability. Since this ability is at-will, it effectively gives you at-will flight at 1st level, which is problematic because longterm/at-will flight is a ~8th level ability. The fact that this is an extraordinary ability is also a big deal. All of this makes shapeshift way too powerful of an ability to give at 1st level.

3) There's also some minor issues as well. For example, saying that shapeshift does not allow you to talk and cast spells is both redundant and problematic because the polymorph rules already cover this, and it ignores the fact that some spells don't need verbal components. The adaptations that increase speed should be enhancement bonuses.

The consequence of the above is that the class is broken. It immediately gets an ability that's too powerful at 1st level while also getting almost no other class features or statistics at later levels. As a result, the class is way too powerful as a 1st level dip while also being worthless to take 20 levels in.

In general, if you want to create a shapeshifter class, you have to do something more creative than just giving pseudo-wildshape and a bag of talents. There's plenty of homebrews and 3rd-party classes that already do that. The concept of shapeshifting is broad enough to do way more than that.


Headfirst wrote:

Instead of going full BAB though, I think I'll provide a scaling bonus on all natural attacks. I think full BAB should be reserved for trained martial trained classes.

Also, there might be times where you really need to use a magical adamantine weapon to harm an enemy or use a specific piece of armor for some reason. I didn't want shapeshifters to be like "well crap, I guess I'll wait outside while you guys deal with that monster that's immune to non-magical weapons."

I think you're greatly overcomplicating this. Full BAB keeps the math simple and gets the class's attack rolls to where they need to be. Adding scaling bonuses to simulate full BAB without actually giving it is needlessly complicated, and I wouldn't do it without a good reason. This is a dedicated front-line tank class and definitely a martial character in my view.

I'd also note that this class will never fight in base form. He has absolutely no class features to support it, and his feats will be focused on enhancing a fighting style based on natural attacks. He will use other means of bypassing DR rather than wasting huge sums of money on enchanted weapons that he will only use once or twice in his entire career and won't even be very effective with. If you're really concerned about this, give him a limited use SLA of Greater Magic Fang some time around the 5th level.

Headfirst wrote:
As for the purpose of the base form abilities, I wanted to ensure that characters didn't feel like they always needed to be in animal form to contribute, especially in social situations or other instances where being a wolf, shark, or gorilla might be problematic.

Lots of classes can't use their primary class features in social situations. A barbarian isn't going to be raging during a parlay with the duke, and a Fighter is little better than a commoner outside of combat (notwithstanding some really cool options in the weapon master's handbook). At-will shapeshifting actually gives a lot of creative out-of-combat options to the player, so I'm not too worried about the class on that front.

Cyrad wrote:
2) It gets an at-will 3rd level spell effect as an extraordinary ability. The reason the druid doesn't get wildshape until 4th level is because beast shape is a 3rd level spell. It's a 3rd level spell because it gives you access to powerful abilities like flight and climb speeds. In addition, turning into an animal is not a 1st level ability. Since this ability is at-will, it effectively gives you at-will flight at 1st level, which is problematic because longterm/at-will flight is a ~8th level ability. The fact that this is an extraordinary ability is also a big deal. All of this makes shapeshift way too powerful of an ability to give at 1st level.

I don't think it's quite as powerful as you're making it out to be. The Druid can have access to at-will flight at the 1st level via his animal companion, and combat-wise nothing that Beast Shape I provides is going to be overpowering on a 1st level character. If it's too much, it's only because the at-will aspect. Given it's the only class feature this class gets, I don't feel that crosses into gamebreaking territory, although it is very powerful.

I feel that any solution should keep the shapeshifting power intact at the 1st level, even if it's limited somehow. You shouldn't have to wait till 2nd level to play the character you want to be playing.

With that said, I do agree on it being an Ex ability (something I missed in my original passthrough). It needs to be Su or Sp.

Grand Lodge

It's true that there are a lot of ways to get unlimited flight at 1st level, including several class features and races.

Likewise, this might seem like a great class for a 1-level dip, but that appeal kind of evaporates when you consider that you lose your weapons, armor, and the ability to cast spells while in animal form, which means the only classes that would really benefit from shapeshifting (other than those who simply desire additional non-combat movement options) would be those that don't need weapons, armor, or spells... so... monks? But that would be unwise because unarmed strikes are not natural attacks, so the monk loses a lot of class features while in wolf form, etc.

But hey, as you point out, a 1-level dip into shapeshifter is kind of pointless around 8th level anyway, when relatively common spells and magic items can easily give you flight, underwater breathing, low-light vision, a climb speed, etc.

However, all that being said, it might be a good idea to limit shapeshifting to flightless animals until 5th level or so.

I went back in and added an ability that makes the shapeshifter's natural attacks count as magic at 7th level and adamantine at 12th. The movement speeds have been changed to enhancement bonuses and shapeshifting has been changed to a supernatural ability.

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

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Getting the ability to change into an animal that can fly at-will is worth a class level in a lot of situations. It trivializes a lot of challenges at lower levels as adventures expect that flight is either impossible or very limited before level 8. I never said there aren't ways to flight at 1st level -- they're just really obscure, difficult to get, and/or

If you want to give the class the ability to bypass damage reduction with natural attacks, then it should follow the monk as an example. Bypass magic at level 3. Bypass adamantine at level 16.

I do recommend looking at the Skin-Changer as suggested by Marc Radle. As I said earlier, the idea of a class dedicated to wildshaping into animals is nothing new.

Grand Lodge

Cyrad wrote:
Getting the ability to change into an animal that can fly at-will is worth a class level in a lot of situations.

Well, dipping is part of the game system, isn't it? As long as this isn't seen as a mandatory dip for all character builds, I'm fine with some people saying, "You know what? It's worth losing a level of full BAB or spellcasting to get unlimited small and medium animal shapeshifting, even if it means I forego all my awesome weapons, armor, and spellcasting while doing it." There are limitations in place to prevent people from taking a level of this class, thinking they're going to rain down arrows from the sky, cast spells while being an inconspicuous little squirrel in a tree, or augment their two-handed sword weapon specialization damage with the strength of a grizzly bear.

Cyrad wrote:
It trivializes a lot of challenges at lower levels as adventures expect that flight is either impossible or very limited before level 8.

Does flying at 1st level trivialize more or fewer encounters than being able to cast sleep 3-4 times a day at 1st level? As long as this class falls somewhere beneath wizard in the tier list, I'll be happy with its balance.

Cyrad wrote:
If you want to give the class the ability to bypass damage reduction with natural attacks, then it should follow the monk as an example. Bypass magic at level 3. Bypass adamantine at level 16.

I'm a bit off on each of those, but close enough for my tastes. As a side note, I generally disagree with the whole "if it's never been done before, it's bad/unbalanced by default" mentality.

Cyrad wrote:
I do recommend looking at the Skin-Changer as suggested by Marc Radle.

One of the goals of this class was to make a shapeshifter that's not thematically tied to ranger/druid outdoorsy ideology or lore. You can play a character that changes shape without getting caught up with a bunch of wilderness survival skills, divine magic, and animal affinity.

Cyrad wrote:
As I said earlier, the idea of a class dedicated to wildshaping into animals is nothing new.

The intent of this sentence seems to fall somewhere between condescending and useless.

All that being said, I really appreciate the feedback. You guys are helping me turn my shapeshifter into something that's going to be really fun for my players! Thanks!


Cyrad wrote:

Getting the ability to change into an animal that can fly at-will is worth a class level in a lot of situations. It trivializes a lot of challenges at lower levels as adventures expect that flight is either impossible or very limited before level 8. I never said there aren't ways to flight at 1st level -- they're just really obscure, difficult to get, and/or

If you want to give the class the ability to bypass damage reduction with natural attacks, then it should follow the monk as an example. Bypass magic at level 3. Bypass adamantine at level 16.

I do recommend looking at the Skin-Changer as suggested by Marc Radle. As I said earlier, the idea of a class dedicated to wildshaping into animals is nothing new.

My big frustration with the Skin-changer (and a lot of variants i've seen) is that you get so few uses/day - for the Skin changer only once up through 5th level. Which means you're basically limited to: Use a single combat form and forget about any kind of utility or flexibility. Which is what I'd want a shapeshifter for.

This version, where it's completely at will, may go a little far in that direction, but it's far closer to what I'd want to be able to do with a shifter.
I do agree with the idea of limiting flight in the early levels. Even if you can't attack or cast while flying, since you can switch at will, you can easily move into position and change back to attack. Not as good, but still really nice. Even pushing flight back to 3rd level would be good.

I'd also second the Full BAB & more hit points argument. This is a martial class. It'll need it.

I would rather see full

Grand Lodge

thejeff wrote:

I do agree with the idea of limiting flight in the early levels. Even if you can't attack or cast while flying, since you can switch at will, you can easily move into position and change back to attack. Not as good, but still really nice. Even pushing flight back to 3rd level would be good.

I'd also second the Full BAB & more hit points argument. This is a martial class. It'll need it.

I limited flight until 4th level and gave the class full BAB while in animal form.

Liberty's Edge

thejeff wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
I do recommend looking at the Skin-Changer as suggested by Marc Radle. As I said earlier, the idea of a class dedicated to wildshaping into animals is nothing new.

My big frustration with the Skin-changer (and a lot of variants i've seen) is that you get so few uses/day - for the Skin changer only once up through 5th level. Which means you're basically limited to: Use a single combat form and forget about any kind of utility or flexibility. Which is what I'd want a shapeshifter for.

Just popping back in and saw this comment. You raise an interesting point. Of course, balance is always paramount, and giving too many uses at low level is a balance concern. Having said that, I can absolutely see your point - you've made me start thinking about ways to make this work in fact. Heck, if the New Paths Compendium ever, oh, I don't know, got a newly updated and expanded hardcover edition ... something like this could very well find its way in ...

Sorry to derail the thread! thejeff, if you'd like to discuss further, please feel free to PM me :)

Grand Lodge

Marc Radle wrote:
thejeff wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
I do recommend looking at the Skin-Changer as suggested by Marc Radle. As I said earlier, the idea of a class dedicated to wildshaping into animals is nothing new.

My big frustration with the Skin-changer (and a lot of variants i've seen) is that you get so few uses/day - for the Skin changer only once up through 5th level. Which means you're basically limited to: Use a single combat form and forget about any kind of utility or flexibility. Which is what I'd want a shapeshifter for.

Just popping back in and saw this comment. You raise an interesting point. Of course, balance is always paramount, and giving too many uses at low level is a balance concern. Having said that, I can absolutely see your point - you've made me start thinking about ways to make this work in fact. Heck, if the New Paths Compendium ever, oh, I don't know, got a newly updated and expanded hardcover edition ... something like this could very well find its way in ...

Sorry to derail the thread! thejeff, if you'd like to discuss further, please feel free to PM me :)

For what it's worth, I 100% agree with thejeff on this. In fact, it's a big part of why I wrote this class in the first place. If you're going to make a class called "shapeshifter," either make shapeshifting at-will or don't make the class at all. This whole x/day of each class's iconic ability is a disease that's infecting more and more Pathfinder material and I, for one, really don't like the direction the game is going.

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Numbered for ease of response.

Headfirst wrote:


2) Does flying at 1st level trivialize more or fewer encounters than being able to cast sleep 3-4 times a day at 1st level? As long as this class falls somewhere beneath wizard in the tier list, I'll be happy with its balance.

3) I'm a bit off on each of those, but close enough for my tastes. As a side note, I generally disagree with the whole "if it's never been done before, it's bad/unbalanced by default" mentality.

4) One of the goals of this class was to make a shapeshifter that's not thematically tied to ranger/druid outdoorsy ideology or lore. You can play a character that changes shape without getting caught up with a bunch of wilderness survival skills, divine magic, and animal affinity.

Cyrad wrote:
As I said earlier, the idea of a class dedicated to wildshaping into animals is nothing new.
5) The intent of this sentence seems to fall somewhere between condescending and useless.

2) The arguments "An ability to do X at-will is balanced because the wizard can do it a limited times per day" and "The ability to do X at-will is balanced because it's not as strong as a wizard doing Y a limited times per day" are Spherical Cow Fallacies.

3) Existing precedents in a game are absolutely vital to power balance.

4) One of the reasons I suggested an existing class is that your class lacks in the lore department. It's easier to take an existing class and refluff it than create an entirely new class that risks feeling flat and flavorless.

5) I'm not trying to be condescending. I am encouraging you to either consider more creative approaches to designing a shapeshifting class or look into an existing implementation to modify, utilize, or take inspiration from.

The thread elicits criticism. You asked if I believe your class is balanced and whether I would take it over a druid to fit a shapeshifting character. My answer is "no" on both counts. It's not balanced and other classes have much more balanced, flavorful, and fleshed out approaches. Worst of all, the class feels dull. A class can be many things, but it should never be boring. Shapeshifting is such a broad, awesome design space. I think you could end up with something much more interesting than an at-will wildshape and a bag of boring talents.

Liberty's Edge

I have to agree - being able to use a primary class feature such as wildshape at will might be cool, but it's just not really balanced against other classes in the game. Designing a fun, interesting yet balanced class is probably one of the more difficult things one can attempt, and it's easy to fall victim to adding aspects that are cool but not balanced.

Having said that, I DO see the point that if a class's main shtick is shapeshifting, being able to do that more often is a valid wish. Like I said, as far as the Skin-Changer goes, I plan on doing some contemplating to see if I can come up with a balanced way to spit the difference as they say


I, on the other hand, would take it over a druid if I wanted a shapeshifter, despite my reservations about some parts of it. The druid comes with too much baggage and is basically a spell caster with Shapechanging as one, fairly minor, added ability.

I might even take it over the Skin Changer, mainly, as I said above, because the limited uses kill the flexibility the shifter should have.

I am concerned about balance: I'm worried about flight being so easy, so early and would be happy to delay flight, as long that didn't delay the basic shapeshifting. If the class is supposed to be a primary martial, I'd rather it be an actual full BAB, d10 class than either just be a 3/4 BAB class or have some kludge to make it a full, but not really, class.

As for more interesting stuff: If you're aiming for Shapeshifter detached from the wilderness/animal affinity, how about something other than Beast Shape? I haven't looked at the other transformation spells lately, but maybe something like style paths, where you start with the basic Beast forms and then pick a path and could get humanoids & giants or dragons oe elementals or whatever other possibilities you can work out. Maybe with further Beast Shapes, maybe not.


Marc Radle wrote:

I have to agree - being able to use a primary class feature such as wildshape at will might be cool, but it's just not really balanced against other classes in the game. Designing a fun, interesting yet balanced class is probably one of the more difficult things one can attempt, and it's easy to fall victim to adding aspects that are cool but not balanced.

Having said that, I DO see the point that if a class's main shtick is shapeshifting, being able to do that more often is a valid wish. Like I said, as far as the Skin-Changer goes, I plan on doing some contemplating to see if I can come up with a balanced way to spit the difference as they say

Change at will during the duration? Or split the duration into minutes of use?

If I recall, the Skin Changer at low levels is completely screwed. He gets his one change and he'd better get all his adventuring done during that "15 minute day" or he's done with his schtick. When it gets up to hours per day, it's better, but still a problem with wilderness/travelling adventures. And worst of all, he can't even talk to his fellow PCs, essentially for the duration of the day's adventuring.

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thejeff wrote:
As for more interesting stuff: If you're aiming for Shapeshifter detached from the wilderness/animal affinity, how about something other than Beast Shape? I haven't looked at the other transformation spells lately, but maybe something like style paths, where you start with the basic Beast forms and then pick a path and could get humanoids & giants or dragons oe elementals or whatever other possibilities you can work out. Maybe with further Beast Shapes, maybe not.

Love your thinking there. As a matter of fact, the two archetypes I have written for this class are "mimic" and "swarmer."

The mimic sacrifices the unlimited at-will shapeshifting for a vastly enhanced version of the faceshift power, making him easily the best disguise-based character in Pathfinder. It even includes the ability to get limited mind-reading to enhance your ability to assume someone else's persona.

The swarmer basically trades beast shape for vermin shape and, at higher levels, can actually become swarms of tiny or fine creatures. It's very fun!

Grand Lodge

Cyrad wrote:
4) One of the reasons I suggested an existing class is that your class lacks in the lore department. It's easier to take an existing class and refluff it than create an entirely new class that risks feeling flat and flavorless.

I'm really, really glad you mentioned this because it was one of the driving design goals of the class. No lore, no exhaustive backstory, no divine mumbo jumbo. You fill in your own blanks when you roll a Shapeshifter. Were you touched by an animal god? Infected with some mutagenic disease? Cursed like a werewolf? Just a natural mimic? Part of a secret, underground society of faceshifters? It's up to you!

In that way, the class is like most of the core classes, such as the fighter, rogue, or wizard. Your character's theme isn't handed to you in the Player's Guide, just the nuts and bolts of how the class mechanically works.

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Headfirst wrote:
Cyrad wrote:
4) One of the reasons I suggested an existing class is that your class lacks in the lore department. It's easier to take an existing class and refluff it than create an entirely new class that risks feeling flat and flavorless.

I'm really, really glad you mentioned this because it was one of the driving design goals of the class. No lore, no exhaustive backstory, no divine mumbo jumbo. You fill in your own blanks when you roll a Shapeshifter. Were you touched by an animal god? Infected with some mutagenic disease? Cursed like a werewolf? Just a natural mimic? Part of a secret, underground society of faceshifters? It's up to you!

In that way, the class is like most of the core classes, such as the fighter, rogue, or wizard. Your character's theme isn't handed to you in the Player's Guide, just the nuts and bolts of how the class mechanically works.

You could honestly do that with any class just by refluffing things. Or better yet, you could make it the variable flavor a class feature. That's what inspired me to design the Artiforged class -- I wanted to create a "cyborg" class where the flavor of your augmentations depended on a class feature supported by game mechanics. You could certainly do the same with your class by having a class feature similar to a sorcerer bloodline except it flavors how the character got the ability to shapechange.

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