
LordBiBo |
So when using the skill, under try again it says: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
So the group is trying to activate a spell on a scroll. There are 2 separate copies of passwall on the scroll as well as some other spells. If they roll a 1, does that mean:
a) they can't use any of the spells on that scroll for 24 hours
b) they can't use that one particular copy of passwall on the scroll for 24 hours, but they could still try to activate the second copy
or
c) they can't activate the passwall on that scroll, or any other scroll for 24 hours

Saethori |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Taken as written, it's only locking out that one particular person from using that one particular item. They can't use the item for any of its functions (including another spell), but they can pass it to somebody else to use. And they can use other items.
I can see some GMs ruling that nobody could use the item, though.
B and C both seem to run contrary to the idea that the lockout is on the item, so I don't think either are very plausible.

Jeraa |

It isn't multiple scrolls, it is still one scroll (just with multiple spells on it). A single magical item. If you rolled a 1, you couldn't attempt to use any of the spells on that scroll until the next day. Just like with a staff - if you rolled a 1 trying to use one power, it blocks you from attempting to use any of the other powers in that staff for the next day.
As for C, you wouldn't be prevented from trying to cast Passwall from another scroll, just the scroll you rolled a 1 on.
And as Saethori said, rolling a 1 only locks out that particular person from using that particular item. The rest of the party can still attempt it until they succeed or roll a 1 themselves.

LordBiBo |
I was assuming other people could try, but only one person has the skill, so passing it around isn't an option.
The reasoning behind B is that I am not sure having all the spells written on one piece of paper makes them a single item or not since having them written on separate pieces of paper would not.
As for the reasoning behind C, it says you can't activate that item again but it doesnt say why. Is it because the item itself is locked up to further use or is it because you personally just can't figure it out and need some time to get your mind off of it before you can try again?
So if you had 2 identical wands and the former was the case, failing the first wand wouldnt prevent you from using the 2nd (though it would probably make it unusable to other people for 24 hours, since you did something to screw it up). Otherwise if the latter were the case, then you probably wouldnt be able to make use of the 2nd wand either, since it requires the same knowledge, but you could pass the wand around to others to give a try if they have the skill to do it.

Saethori |

(though it would probably make it unusable to other people for 24 hours, since you did something to screw it up).
Not as written (hence specifying that some GMs may).
I can kind of see it like trying to mess with a frustrating puzzle until you get annoyed enough to want to put it down until you have a clear head in the morning. I, personally, rule that the failure got gunk in the magical aura and it needs time to recover from the tampering, thus that nobody could use it. My decision is 100% homebrew, however.

Gilfalas |
1 person marked this as a favorite. |

Retry?
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
Bolding is mine.
A) Correct
B) Incorrect
C) Incorrect.
The rule applies to that indivuduals use of that item. So if you are trying to activate a scroll with 1 or 100 spells on it, it is one scroll and it means the specific person who rolled a 1 cannot use that specific scroll. Their roll of a 1 does not affect other people using that scroll in any way and it does not affect their ability to try UMD on items other than the scroll at all.
So if you had 2 identical wands and the former was the case, failing the first wand wouldnt prevent you from using the 2nd (though it would probably make it unusable to other people for 24 hours, since you did something to screw it up). Otherwise if the latter were the case, then you probably wouldnt be able to make use of the 2nd wand either, since it requires the same knowledge, but you could pass the wand around to others to give a try if they have the skill to do it.
Those are incorrect. Nothing in UMD states the item is unusable to all. The penalty of rolling a 1 applies ONLY to the one who rolled a 1 and ONLY in relation to the specific item they rolled a one on.
Make up any reason you want for why that happens as long as it fits into the limitations above.
To be clear rolling a 1 does not screw up the item. It screws up your understanding and assumptions of how that specific item works and hence you need 24 hours to 'clear your mind on that topic'.