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The subject gains a +4 morale bonus on saves against all death spells and magical death effects. The subject is granted a save to negate such effects even if one is not normally allowed. The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled negative energy.
This spell instantly delivers 10 points of damage per caster level. If the spell slays the target, it consumes the remains utterly in holy (or unholy) fire (but not its equipment or possessions). If the target's Fortitude saving throw succeeds, it instead takes 10d6 points of damage.
So my question is, basically, does Death Ward turn all [death] spells into "Save negates" spells? Or am I reading too much into it, and it's just meant strictly to counter no-save spells?
Destruction allows Fortitude (partial) as its save. This means it does not allow a save to negate, and therefore Death Ward should allow it one.
I think it would replace the existing save, however, rather than allow a second.
Destruction allows Fortitude (partial) as its save. This means it does not allow a save to negate, and therefore Death Ward should allow it one.
I think it would replace the existing save, however, rather than allow a second.
Since the spell allows a save, the +4 would apply. The second sentence does not apply since the spell allows a save. The +4 is to save vs. the death effect and if save is made, still take the 10d6 of damage.
This is an issue of how the spell text is parsed. There are essentially two different interpretations.
Option A:
The subject gains a +4 morale bonus on saves against all death spells and magical death effects. The subject is granted a save to negate such effects even if [a save to negate] is not normally allowed. The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled negative energy.
Option B:
The subject gains a +4 morale bonus on saves against all death spells and magical death effects. The subject is granted a save to negate such effects even if [any save at all] is not normally allowed. The subject is immune to energy drain and any negative energy effects, including channeled negative energy.
I would be strongly inclined to lean towards B, especially since option A doesn't tell you how to resolve saves for partial. Does the save negate instead? Do you get two saves? No clue.
The second sentence does not apply since the spell allows a save.
Death Ward says if the death spell does not give a save to negate. Destruction does not give a save to negate, it gives a save to lessen.
I know it can be needlessly pointless semantics at times, but it's how the spell is worded.
I'd say you get the +4, which apply to all death effects, but not a second save to negate the spell.
You are giving a 4th level spell effects the 9th level ones don't have...negate every spell out of a whole class by granting another save to it. Would you allow me to research a buff to negate every fire/force/compulsion/whatever spell by giving me an extra save to it?
That's not what I'm asking, Vatras. I never said anything about a second save.
does Death Ward turn all [death] spells into "Save negates" spells?
No idea where people are getting that from.
It seems that posters are almost perfectly split on this.
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It is possible to parse "The subject is granted a save to negate such effects even if one is not normally allowed." as changing all death effect saves to 'Save Negates'. It does not include a clause that effects with 'Save Partial' are exempt. However, it does not seem that it is meant to be read that way.