So I am looking for some assistance. I am playing through Rise of the Runelords and we just finished up thistletop. We left a part of the bottom level untouched because an NPC death and of my fellow PC wanted to try to bring him back to life. I think the party is planning on moving forward with the resurrection (maybe reincarnation), and that will eat up most of the available gold.
Anyways, we are currently level 4 and I am not sure how far to level 5. Our GM is just telling us when we are suppose to level up. Anyways, I am looking for some advice on my character. I don’t need advice necessary towards RotRL, but advice towards what I want my character to accomplish and only for the next few levels. We play kind of inconsistently, so it could be awhile before we make most more progress. Hopefully a level or two before school starts again. When I rolled this character, I had little idea what I was doing, but neither did anyone else in the party. Everyone is far from optimized. I am 100 percent sure the GM is pulling punches.
Rogar: Dwarf Cleric 3 (Protection and Good)/ Fighter 1
Stats:
Str: 14
Dex: 13
Con: 14
Wis: 17
Int: 10
Cha:12
Feats
Toughness
Extra Channel
Ancestral Weapon Mastery (Dwarven Longhammer)
Trait (only 1): Student of Faith
Magic Items: Wand of Cure Light Wounds. The wealth distribution is a little weird. Three members played through Black Fang Keep and got mad treasurers from that. The magical items from this AP have pretty much all gone to the same character. So two of us are far below wealth level, but I am trying not to talk about it
Weapons:
Masterwork Dwarven Longhammer
Warhammer
Battle Ax
Longbow
Spells I like to use:
Level 1
Bless (might stop preparing - our sorceror has it on her spell list)
Remove Fear (1 too many times, our fighter fled)
Protection from evil
Shield of faith
Level 2
Align Weapon
Spiritual Weapon
Ironskin
Our party started with a fighter (with the sweet longsword from blackfangs keep), fire domain druid, a celestial sorcerer and myself. The other three people wanted someone who wouldn’t be “squishy”. Then after we hit level 2, we gained a slayer (uses falchion) and an unchained rogue (uses a crossbow, despite being built more around short swords).
I started off by trying to build a buffer/melee cleric. Could have definitely done it better, but I can only go forward with what I have. I am looking for feat/spell suggestions that allow me to help keep myself and others alive in combat. I wade right in there and take a lot of hits and usually end up unconscious. So what are some fun feats that increase my survivability and killing power.
Power Attack looks good. I was also looking at the perfect style feat chain. I also want to get a set of heavy armor eventually. Maybe full plate? I am currently enjoying using weapons two-handed.
First sorry for the bad english (not my native language)
Imho a cleric will never be a good melee fighter especially with your stats and the low Bab. Dont waste feats on power attacks, you won't be able to hit monsters in a few level.
Seems like your group could use a buffer/healer.
So my advice would be:
-increase wisdom to 18 at lvl 4. Find ways to increase this stat (wisdom headband)
-toughness and extra channel are ok (ancestral weapon sux for you). Depending of your gm, (big bad guy or a lot of minions) you could take selective channeling (12 char is a bit low but using channel to heal in combat is not spell-consuming and you need that).
Heavy armor proficiency is good, shield focus too, dodge, expertise, lightning reflexes for survavibility
extend spell is the only metamagic you need imo
-You need a big armor, a shield to pump up your AC. And thou need to stay behind, keeping your buddies alive.
Spells to survive: Sanctuary, protection from evil, obscuring mist, ironskin,
Spells to buff: Protection from evil communal, divine favor
Spells to debuff: Doom, Hold person, Murderous command, Silence, shatter
I appreciate the suggestions. I am not necessary looking to kill everything, but simply control the battlefield and be a roadblock for enemies to my allies. My allies can be afraid to engage sometimes, so I usually have to lead the charge.
I already spent my level 4 increase to get strength to 14.
I was thinking about channeling feats, but outside of the one channel feat I spent, I want to avoid them. My character will never be good at channeling.
I kind of like having my second hand free so I can cast spells and such. I had a buckler but lost it in the ocean. I could get another one I suppose, but it interferes with 2-handed.
I also generally don't want to depend on acquiring magical items. My characters wealth is about 1000 gp at level 4. I hope I will get some gold or items (and I know the game assumes we will have them) but just to play it safe I want to keep magical items as nice extras and not required. Our GM is really good at adjust the encounters so they are challenging, but not impossible.
Anyone else have any suggestions or did TheMask pretty much sum it up? Or do I need to better articulate what I am trying to accomplish with this cleric?
Your fighter level gives you Heavy Armor Proficiency, so save up for some full plate. Maybe hint to one of your richer friends that your birthday is coming up.... ;-)
Definitely put your 8th level ability boost into Wisdom.
Combat Reflexes might be really good for you. Have you checked out the Reach Cleric guide yet? It will help with battlefield control and roadblock duty. Stand Still might help with that, too.
Consider Quicken Spell at 9th or 11th. A Quickened divine favor is a really nice buff: +3 to attack and damage. Can you take the Additional Traits feat? Fate's Favored would increase that to +4/+4, and help with all other luck bonuses, of course. You would also get a third trait, too, like Champion of the Society (I think) which gives a +1 trait bonus to AC in heavy armor, or one of the ones that give +2 to initiative.
Are you going to focus on cleric moving forward, or do you think you'll dabble in fighter some more? Or take a PrC, like Holy Vindicator?
It sounds like you like to use your spells primarily for buffing. Magic Vestments and Greater Magic Weapon and Righteous Might and Blessing of Fervor sound right up your alley.
Honestly, a Cleric shouldn't be holding the line.
If you're wanting to stand in that zone though here are some options that could help you...
-Take levels in Warpriest. It is a hybrid class of Cleric and Fighter.
-Get the feat "Create Reliquary Arms and Armor" and create your main weapon and a shield or tower shield as a reliquary. That would allow you the highest available AC, using either as your divine focus and holy symbol. Quick draw will help if you need a free hand for somantic components in spell casting. Full-plate and a tower shield will get your defense pretty good.
If you had better Channeling abilities I would recommend Holy Vindicator prestige class as it has high BAB, d10 HD, FULL channel progression and spell casting progression 7/10 levels.
Yes I definitely want some heavy armor. I did already get a loan (maybe a donation) from another character for the masterwork dwarven longhammer. I was planning on staying cleric. I don’t want to lose any more spellcasting progression. The vindicator class does look very intersting and has potential down the road. I suppose I could take the feat for two more traits and one of the traits be magical knack to help compensate some.
Thank you very much for the spell suggestions. Those are pretty much what I was looking for. If you have any other ones, I would super appreciate. I try to avoid ones that allow saves from enemies, because my DCs won’t be high enough to make those a reliable. At least not anytime soon.
I will be focusing on raising my wisdom from here on out. Maybe get my strength to 16 with a magic item, but not to worried about that this second.
In terms of feats, that Create Reliquary Arms and Armor is certainly interesting. Though I would need craft Magic Arms and Armor first. With an Int of 10, I am not sure about the spellcraft checks to complete the process. I was thinking about crafting feats, and my gm said that we could get some downtime if people wanted it for profession and crafting so it is an option. I thought it might help even out the character wealth issue. I was thinking about some metamagic feats, but I haven’t spent enough time reviewing them. Though the quicken +4/+4 would be pretty awesome.
If you wish to stay in melee the fighter dip is worth it for the various proficiencies and feats.
On the downside I can tell you outright that clerics suck in melee. And when I say suck, I compare them to a martial class standing right next to him. You are equivalent until level 6, drop somewhat till 11 and then you are insignificant on the field. Nobody needs to fear your AOs, nor do you have the CMB to pull off tricks.
I gave melee a try once, but the main disadvantage - besides being insignificant - is that you usually do not have the time to buff yourself. Most battles are over in 4-6 rounds, so spending any of that buffing yourself (and moving in afterwards) means you are late. And then you are insignificant past level 11 when it comes to damage, which is not to my taste. When I see the paladin do 350 against a demon in one round (OK, he did 8 attacks with several crits) or the fighter about 140 against anyone, my own attack for 6-18 isn't helping.
Last, but most importantly, while you are in melee you are hampered for casting your spells, as you will risk interruptions.
Lets talk about metamagic.
Clerics are feat-starved. You are one of the few caster classes without a single bonus feat or its equivalent. Therefore you can only affordso many meta feats. Since they have to be useful all of the time, you have to choose among the generic ones.
These are: reach spell (you are never within reach for touch spells), persistent spell (helps overcoming saves), bouncing spell (same as persistent, but less useful, requires a 2nd target present), heighten spell (if you have to push a DC or break a globe), spell perfection (best there is) and quicken spell (high level only). The special case metas like threnodic spell come in handy, if you are in the situation for which they are designed. That is rarely the case. So if you really crave one of those, get a rod. Speaking of rods, those are your favorite magic items, since as preparing caster you cannot meta on the fly, except with them.
You can practically forget about the damage metas, since the divine nukes are a) very weak or b) high level. There is no point in empowering Holy Smite for example, and you will be probably past 12th before you think about empowering flamestrikes.
You can get Spell Focus, but it sucks for clerics. Your attack spells are across the board and not in one or two schools...bestow curse is necromancy, hold is an enchantment, flamestrike is an evocation, and dismissal is an abjuration. You cannot afford all those focus feats, so it is up to you to help a couple of spells or leave it be.
I left out extend spell in the list above. That was for the reason, that your spells last either long enough already, and not long enough with extend to make it meaningful. I have lived happily without it, others like it.
Feats that are always beneficial for clerics are: improved initiative, combat casting (if you go toe to toe), spell penetration, selective channeling (you don't want to heal the enemy) and toughness.
Due to the diminishing effect of channeling with rising level I would not invest into extra channels. I *would* do it, if my DM allowed channeling variant rules, because I would always get something out of it, even if the healing is low. If yours does, have a look at what bonuses your domains offer and pick one. The protection domain for example offers a channeling AC bonus for 1 round (+1 now, +2 once you hit 5th).
Useful spells (if allowed)
- across all levels the communal spells, usually in conjunction with reach spell; otherwise you canot buff the whole group at once when you need to
1: bless (if there is more than one to buff, like summoned animals), divine favor, remove fear, protection from evil, command (drop), forbid action (better as command), touch of Sarenrae (best heal there is on low levels), ray of hope
2: bull strength (for anyone using melee), grace, lesser restoration, shield other (maybe too soon), silence, protection from evil (communal)
3: dispel magic, prayer, invisibility purge, resist energy (communal), wrathful mantle
Since you can change your spells every day, feel free to experiment a little. With an oracle you are tied to what I refer to as the core spells.
I included those with saves (there are few which don't grant one), since they are occasionally life savers. Experiment with them a little and in conjunction with bouncing/persistent if you pick one of those to see what works. You can also use teamwork with your arcane caster later on to get spells on target.
Thats what I can think of offhand.