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Hey everyone - I've really been liking the Darklands for a while, and just started reading Darklands Revisited. I've been reading over the Munavri section in quite great detail, and I find it odd that they mention the farms of the Munavri without mentioning what they're farming, so far as I can tell. I'm making the presumption that it's fungi farms, like most of the Darklands, and maybe fish farms too, but they're stated elsewhere to have nutrition needs similar to the ancient Azlanti - not sure if that's implying the nutrients are the actual food.
What do you guys think? :)
I think it's just talking about it nutritionally as opposed to actual food. I wouldn't imagine that their internal physiology would change much. They are probably farming fungus, because let's be real, everyone in the Darklands does that. I also shudder to think what kind of weird ichthyic horrors are pulled out of the Sightless Sea.
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I think it's just talking about it nutritionally as opposed to actual food. I wouldn't imagine that their internal physiology would change much. They are probably farming fungus, because let's be real, everyone in the Darklands does that. I also shudder to think what kind of weird ichthyic horrors are pulled out of the Sightless Sea.
Everyone does indeed farm fungus in the Darklands, but everyone also ends up insane and/or evil down there too - the Munavri have escaped from that. I think it is likely, just weird it's not described in anyway. I'm writing up a little adventure where the PCs are Munavri, and trying to really flesh out the world down there - as far as I know the only Munavri stuff is in Darklands Revisited, and there's not much to go on. They definitely have some 'normal' food in my world - they had powerful clerics when they were brought down there, and still do, so they can produce enough normal food for it to still be something they know :)
And yeah, the fish they might fish up are frightening just to think of - I was thinking of having one species look like mini-Aboleths - no powers of them, of course, just looks.
I think a Munavri market would be filled with fungus, blind fish, fried bats, and cooked vermin.
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I think a Munavri market would be filled with fungus, blind fish, fried bats, and cooked vermin.
Yeah, eels, bats, giant cave crickets, centipedes, etc. would seem like good choices.
There'd need to be some sort of 'energy source' for the bottom of the food pyramid, but the Darklands tend to have strange energy sources, like 'mysterious underdark radiations' or whatever, on which tiny brine or plankton-like critters could feed, as well as 'deep vent smokers' providing chemicals and heat in some of the darkland 'seas,' and these tiny critters could serve as the bottom of a food chain that includes schools of fish and eels, creating a marine ecosystem that works without sunlight, or having to subsist on whatever meager nutrients wash their way down from the surface world.
Some forms of plant creature, such as lichens, might be able to, in a fantasy world, replace their need for sunlight with these sorts of 'underdark radiations,' or subsist on decaying magical energies in ancient sunken ruins, turning them into nutrition for themselves, and therefore food for the next critters up the food chain.
And in a creepier occult direction, some of these bottom tier producer organisms might even feed off of the spiritual residue left behind that becomes haunts, causing the haunts to fail over decades, or perhaps even centuries, as they slowly grow, and perhaps flaring into sudden dangerous growth when something dies in the area, fattened by the sudden outpouring of spiritual energy, and, ironically, becoming more dangerous than the haunt that they were feeding off of in the first place...
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I think a Munavri market would be filled with fungus, blind fish, fried bats, and cooked vermin.Yeah, eels, bats, giant cave crickets, centipedes, etc. would seem like good choices.
There'd need to be some sort of 'energy source' for the bottom of the food pyramid, but the Darklands tend to have strange energy sources, like 'mysterious underdark radiations' or whatever, on which tiny brine or plankton-like critters could feed, as well as 'deep vent smokers' providing chemicals and heat in some of the darkland 'seas,' and these tiny critters could serve as the bottom of a food chain that includes schools of fish and eels, creating a marine ecosystem that works without sunlight, or having to subsist on whatever meager nutrients wash their way down from the surface world.
Some forms of plant creature, such as lichens, might be able to, in a fantasy world, replace their need for sunlight with these sorts of 'underdark radiations,' or subsist on decaying magical energies in ancient sunken ruins, turning them into nutrition for themselves, and therefore food for the next critters up the food chain.
And in a creepier occult direction, some of these bottom tier producer organisms might even feed off of the spiritual residue left behind that becomes haunts, causing the haunts to fail over decades, or perhaps even centuries, as they slowly grow, and perhaps flaring into sudden dangerous growth when something dies in the area, fattened by the sudden outpouring of spiritual energy, and, ironically, becoming more dangerous than the haunt that they were feeding off of in the first place...
Nice ideas! Yeah, definitely an energy source is required - I was actually considering the psychic energy of the jade islands that the Munavri live on be a source of energy, which provides some of the stranger food sources for them, and then all of the typical fungi, lichens and the like growing off of the radiation present. There's precedent (see Deep Tolguth) in the Pathfinder universe that fake sunlight can cause crops to grow as they do on the surface, so was also considering that Beryl Isle has a 'farm' where they can grow normal food, maybe from a very powerful Continual Flame-like spell cast by an Empyreal lord to help them out. Might seem too 'normal', but I do want something to set the Munavri a little bit aside from the other Darkland dwellers, especially as it's consistently portrayed as the fungi and lichens of the Darklands corrupting people.
Another interesting thing could be the Munavri gaining some form of sustenance, whether it be physcical or psychic, from the jade that they live on. It has been mentioned that they became what they are today because of the energy from the jade islands. About the farms for normal food, I see no reason why they couldn't use permanent daylight.
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Nice ideas! Yeah, definitely an energy source is required - I was actually considering the psychic energy of the jade islands that the Munavri live on be a source of energy, which provides some of the stranger food sources for them, and then all of the typical fungi, lichens and the like growing off of the radiation present. There's precedent (see Deep Tolguth) in the Pathfinder universe that fake sunlight can cause crops to grow as they do on the surface, so was also considering that Beryl Isle has a 'farm' where they can grow normal food, maybe from a very powerful Continual Flame-like spell cast by an Empyreal lord to help them out.
Continual flame is an interesting choice, because it's an illusion spell, and, IMO, illusory light shouldn't be able to grow plants any more than illusory grain can feed livestock. That said, the illusion school does include the [shadow] descriptor, in which an illusion spell can draw upon 'real' extradimensional energy. A continual flame item that is cast as a [shadow] spell *could* paradoxically create light that is nourishing to plant-life, despite coming from a plane of darkness that is notoriously 'low energy' compared to the material plane...
But other sorts of magic or 'unnatural' options could work as well. A thermophilic form of plant or fungus or lichen or plankton or even tiny animal life (like brine shrimp), similar to, but not as dangerous as, brown mold, could turn heat from volcanic vents into food, or, at the minimum, serve as a base level of food for larger forms of life that can themselves be eaten.
The bottom of a subterranean food chain has lots of options, in a fantasy universe with creatures able to subsist off of heat (brown mold), any sort of organic material (some slimes and oozes), solid stone (thoqqua, xorn), magical energies (those magic-item eating tentacle-donkey things), etc.
Might seem too 'normal', but I do want something to set the Munavri a little bit aside from the other Darkland dwellers, especially as it's consistently portrayed as the fungi and lichens of the Darklands corrupting people.
Given that the 'mysterious darklands radiations' of Golarion may be leaking straight from the cage that holds Rovagug, then yeah, it does kind of mean that many darklands critters are someone, directly or second- or third-hand, *metabolizing evil and rage* with their daily bread...
Perhaps the jade islands of the munavri somehow purge the evil and rage in the darklands food cycle, with a powerful dose of serenity. An association of jade with serenity, and the islands with a calming effect on the otherwise savage and merciless darklands surrounding them, feels on-theme to me.
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Another interesting thing could be the Munavri gaining some form of sustenance, whether it be physcical or psychic, from the jade that they live on. It has been mentioned that they became what they are today because of the energy from the jade islands. About the farms for normal food, I see no reason why they couldn't use permanent daylight.
The jade purifying the 'dark' energies of Rovagug/the Darkalnds as Set mentioned is a very cool option - replied in greater detail below. Psychic sustenance from the jade is cool - if they live away from the jade, maybe they need to make a pilgrimage once every decade or so back to the jade, likely Beryl Isle. I went with Continual Flame just because it is commonly Permanencied, but Daylight is a better choice, yeah. Thanks! :)
Continual flame is an interesting choice, because it's an illusion spell, and, IMO, illusory light shouldn't be able to grow plants any more than illusory grain can feed livestock. That said, the illusion school does include the [shadow] descriptor, in which an illusion spell can draw upon 'real' extradimensional energy. A continual flame item that is cast as a [shadow] spell *could* paradoxically create light that is nourishing to plant-life, despite coming from a plane of darkness that is notoriously 'low energy' compared to the material plane...
But other sorts of magic or 'unnatural' options could work as well. A thermophilic form of plant or fungus or lichen or plankton or even tiny animal life (like brine shrimp), similar to, but not as dangerous as, brown mold, could turn heat from volcanic vents into food, or, at the minimum, serve as a base level of food for larger forms of life that can themselves be eaten.
The bottom of a subterranean food chain has lots of options, in a fantasy universe with creatures able to subsist off of heat (brown mold), any sort of organic material (some slimes and oozes), solid stone (thoqqua, xorn), magical energies (those magic-item eating tentacle-donkey things), etc.
Might seem too 'normal', but I do want something to set the Munavri a little bit aside from the other DarklandGiven that the 'mysterious darklands radiations' of Golarion may be leaking straight from the cage that holds Rovagug, then yeah, it does kind of mean that many darklands critters are someone, directly or second- or third-hand, *metabolizing evil and rage* with their daily bread...
Perhaps the jade islands of the munavri somehow purge the evil and rage in the darklands food cycle, with a powerful dose of serenity. An association of jade with serenity, and the islands with a calming effect on the otherwise savage and merciless darklands surrounding them, feels on-theme to me.
As far as I can tell, Continual Flame is an Evocation(Light) spell, so it should work - you're literally creating real light with it. But as mentioned above, a powerful Permanencied Daylight should work better for the purpose I'm imagining. Would be a cool plot hook too - the lights gone out, and no-one knows why.
Yeah, there really are a lot of choices for the food chain - solid stone is a very nice one, I was actually having an idea for small plankton-like creatures that survive by eating the ever-replenishing jade from their islands, which gives the surrounding fish-life a bit more of a not-evil vibe, although still extremely alien for anyone from the surface. The more evil creatures would have the food chain starting from heat and chemicals from vents on the bottom, likely helped by the Aboleth initially, as well as from the radiation in the Darklands. Thanks for the help with the food chain - it's been fleshed out nicely! :D
I really like the jade purfying the radiation, but my main issue with it is that it seems that the Munavri only stayed good because of good luck, and not because they chose not to stray. I'd like the Munavri to be Good because of extreme effort and sacrifice on their side, rather than because they chanced upon their jade islands. Also - they stayed Good for some time in Soltrua, before they had their jade islands, so they must have some form of farming that doesn't make them fall. There's also Azatum Neta's settlement on the coast of the Arcadian side of the Sightless Sea that is not on jade islands, so can't just be the jade, but I think I'll have it help them out, definitely - see the jade-eating critters.
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As far as I can tell, Continual Flame is an Evocation(Light) spell, so it should work - you're literally creating real light with it. But as mentioned above, a powerful Permanencied Daylight should work better for the purpose I'm imagining. Would be a cool plot hook too - the lights gone out, and no-one knows why.
Ooh, my total mistake! Since the flame produced heatless light, I assumed it was illusory flame! Learn something new every day.
Yeah, there really are a lot of choices for the food chain - solid stone is a very nice one, I was actually having an idea for small plankton-like creatures that survive by eating the ever-replenishing jade from their islands, which gives the surrounding fish-life a bit more of a not-evil vibe, although still extremely alien for anyone from the surface. The more evil creatures would have the food chain starting from heat and chemicals from vents on the bottom, likely helped by the Aboleth initially, as well as from the radiation in the Darklands. Thanks for the help with the food chain - it's been fleshed out nicely! :D
I really like the jade purifying the radiation, but my main issue with it is that it seems that the Munavri only stayed good because of good luck, and not because they chose not to stray. I'd like the Munavri to be Good because of extreme effort and sacrifice on their side, rather than because they chanced upon their jade islands.
It could be that the jade islands resonate with what is brought to them, so that it's the munavri using the nature of the islands to save themselves, and if they brought wickedness or suspicion or whatever, the jade would have amplified those tendencies instead.
Also - they stayed Good for some time in Soltrua, before they had their jade islands, so they must have some form of farming that doesn't make them fall. There's also Azatum Neta's settlement on the coast of the Arcadian side of the Sightless Sea that is not on jade islands, so can't just be the jade, but I think I'll have it help them out, definitely - see the jade-eating critters.
Sounds cool!
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It could be that the jade islands resonate with what is brought to them, so that it's the munavri using the nature of the islands to save themselves, and if they brought wickedness or suspicion or whatever, the jade would have amplified those tendencies instead.
I really, really like this - this is definitely being used. Awesome! :D
I also wonder about what creatures have enough bone to make the munavri's ivory ships? Is it just killing one incredibly large creature or slaying a fair amount of smaller creatures and somehow magically melding their bone together? The munavri definitely raise a few interesting questions.
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I also wonder about what creatures have enough bone to make the munavri's ivory ships? Is it just killing one incredibly large creature or slaying a fair amount of smaller creatures and somehow magically melding their bone together? The munavri definitely raise a few interesting questions.
From Darklands Revisited:
The bones
and teeth of large sea creatures compose the majority
of munavri sailing ships hulls’
It seems they're EXTREMELY large creatures, whatever they are, that allow bones and teeth to be the hulls of ships - a very interesting topic.
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The Sightless Sea still has so much to show you...
Also, this thread greatly pleases me, and is inspiring some additional material that maybe I can get published in the future!
:O Thurston replied to my thread! :D I love your work - especially Darklands Revisited, the details on the races are great, and it's just got so many cool things that act as plot hooks - I wanted to run an adventure down in the Darklands, and after reading your book I had no less than 5 completely serious ideas I had to choose between! Please do write more about the Darklands - it's a super interesting area that doesn't have much written about it yet! :D