| RaizielDragon |
I have a character concept that I am working on for a Paladin, and there are 4 archetypes I want to combine. Now, these obviously don't stack per normal rules of determining if you can combine 2+ archetypes, due to the class features affected. However, I know that some posts I've seen on these forums talk about how their groups have allowed some combinations if the combinations aren't too broken and/or if the changes/replacements are allowed to stack in such a way as to not end up with more than what you started with.
I intend to discuss this potential character with my DM, but wanted to get other players/DMs input on whether or not they think it is a gamebreaking combination. I don't think it is, obviously (otherwise I wouldn't be bringing it up), but I do like some outside, impartial, input.
So, the 4 archetypes are:
Oath of Charity
Sacred Servant
Warrior of the Holy Light
Purifier (3rd party)
Now, to sum these up, each changes/replaces the following class features in some way:
Oath of Charity: Lay on Hands, Divine Bond, Code of Conduct, Spells
Sacred Servant: Smite Evil, Divine Bond, Spells, Aura of Resolve
Warrior of the Holy Light: Spells, Aura of Faith
Purifier: Weapons and Armor Proficiency, Lay on Hands, Smite Evil, Mercy, Aura of Courage, Channel Positive Energy, Aura of Justice, Holy Champion
So, the 4 class features where some overlap occurs are: Lay on Hands, Spells, Smite Evil, and Divine Bond.
Lay on Hands: Oath of Charity affects the amount of healing from LoH by decreasing my healing on myself by 50% and increasing the healing on others by 50%. Purifier gives me LoH one level earlier lets me use LoH on others as a Move action (but without Mercies) and allows me to sacrifice my own HP to provide more HP to another target. Both of these are additive features that are balanced by the diminished capabilities that each archetype causes elsewhere.
Spells: Oath of Charity adds additional spells to the Paladin spell list, and Sacred Servant adds additional spells slots via a domain. However, Warrior of the Holy Light completely removes spells, meaning I'm not getting the intended spells benefit from Oath of Charity or Sacred Servant anyway. So I feel like this is actually a weakened interaction.
Divine Bond: Sacred Servant gives an alternate, and mandatory, choice for the Divine Bond involving a holy symbol instead of your weapon or mount, but Oath of Charity straight up replaces it anyway, so I wouldn't gain the feature from Sacred Servant, since it is replaced by Oath of Charity.
Smite Evil: I saved this one for last, as it is the interaction that gives me the most advantage, and therefore the one I feel is most likely to cause the interaction to not be allowed by someone, and therefore the one to be the most talked about. Sacred Servant diminishes Smite Evil by reducing the rate at which I gain additional uses of Smite Evil, but Purifier wants to completely replace Smite Evil with a class feature called Rightful Retribution. So, with this combination, I'm gaining Rightful Retribution by giving up a diminished version of Smite Evil, instead of a full version of Smite Evil. I.e: Sacred Servant was balanced by taking away SOME of Smite Evil and giving me other features elsewhere, and Purifier was balanced by completely taking away Smite Evil and giving me Rightful Retribution, so I should be giving up Smite Evil and some MORE Smite Evil, but I only have one Smite Evil to give up.
Now, this means that of the 4 class features that overlap, 2 are a wash, one I actually lose something and another I gain something. To me, this is roughly a wash. To add to this, for the domain I gain from Sacred Servant (the main perk you gain for getting a reduced Smite Evil feature) not only am I not getting the domain spells (since I'm giving up spells with Warrior of the Holy Light) which I already mentioned, I'm also choosing an Inquisition instead of an actual domain; an option that the Inquisition rules even points out is a weaker option. Now, granted, this is usually a weaker option because of the domain spells, which in this case I know I won't be getting anyway. However, the Inquisition I want is the True Death Inquisition, which will have a useless 1st level ability for me, as it only affects Cure spells, which I won't have.
So, all-in-all, while it does require houseruling to allow for the combining of these archetypes, due to the multiple modifications to multiple class features, I feel like they don't combine in an overwhelmingly positive way or in a way that results in an overly broken character build.
Thoughts?
| My Self |
This is not an OP combination, but not all combinations are as benign. I'd say it's probably an easy yes if the archetypes only replaced the capstone or abilities you would never see during your campaign. Your current layout would also be a yes, but multiple replacements at low levels are worth evaluating on a case-by-case basis. I'd be wary of setting precedents for double-feature stacking.
Maybe you write out your combined archetyped class features on a level-by-level layout?
| RaizielDragon |
Oh, I wasn't looking for a blanket "should all archetype combinations be allowed" answer. I was just asking for this specific build. I agree not all combinations are benign.
I will work on getting a level by level layout up in a little while.
What kind of details would you like to see in the layout? Do you just want to see what the class looks like with all 4 archetypes applied, or do you want to see the class features that are getting replaced next to the ones that are replacing them? Just want to know what to include.
| RaizielDragon |
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: Simple weapons, longsword, warhammer, all types of armor and shields.
1st: Aura of Good, detect evil, Lay on Hands, Rightful Retribution
2nd: Divine Grace, Charitable Hands, Merciful Hex
3rd: Divine Health, Mercy, Word of Healing
4th: Domain, Power of Faith, Rightful Retribution (+1), Positive Energy Surge
5th: Charitable Mercy
6th: Mercy
7th: Rightful Retribution (+2)
8th: Call Celestial Ally, Power of Faith (lesser restoration)
9th: Mercy
10th: Rightful Retribution (+3)
11th: Aura of Purification
12th: Mercy, Power of Faith (daylight)
13th: Rightful Retribution (+4)
14th: Shining Light
15th: Mercy
16th: Power of Faith (fortification), Rightful Retribution (+5)
17th: Aura of Righteousness
18th: Mercy
19th: Rightful Retribution (+6)
20th: Power of Faith (doubled), Absorb Evil
Also, if it matters, the campaign is starting at 6th and planning on going until around 11th.