Invisibility and combat maneuvers?

[DarkPhoenixx]

When creature perform Combat Maneuver it provokes AoO. AoO happen before the action. What if creature under invisibility makes a trip (or any other) maneuver? AoO is tirggered before the hostile action so invis is still on (therefore AoO is impossible)? Or it goes away, then it takes AoO, then it proceeds with its action?

[Rysky]

While the AoO goes off before the provoking action it is still triggered by it, and since the they were unaware of the person provoking I would say no AoO.

Unless they were somehow aware of the other person despite being invisible.

[Laureth]

Hmmm... I would see it a bit differently. In order to provoke the AOO, the attacker begins his attack by taking an appropriate action, thus breaking invis, then the AOO interrupts the attack action and happens before the attack *resolves*. An AOO is a reaction to something after all. It doesn't happen before, it happens during and resolves first. Could be wrong though.

An example in real life would be that if I tried to throw a punch at you and you, with your mad ninja skills, reacted to that and popped me first knocking me on my ass, you can still claim self defense because I "attacked you", even though you interrupted thwarted my attack and it never hit.

I guess I am trying to say that starting the attack is attacking, and that my invis break as soon as I start swinging.

[Lorewalker]

The invisibility does not break until after the attack roll. Thus you are invisible doing the attack. Thus you are considered to have total cover against the enemy. The rules state that you can not take AOOs against things that have cover.

So, you do not get an AOO. But you do now know the exact square they are attacking from unless they have reach, and then you only know the direction they are from you.

[Laureth]

Respectfully, I don't think that is correct. I can see why you would rule that way though and I may be wrong.

This is really the same question as whether a Rogue can get a sneak attack from regular invis (not greater) - there are tons of extensive threads on that topic, so it might be best to have a look at one of those to see if there was ever an official answer rather than having the same thing out again. I will have a look if I get the chance.

[Laureth]

Only had a quick look, but it would seem the consensus is with Lorewalker that invis doesn't break until you actually make you attack roll. Well, you live and you learn.

[Lorewalker]

Laureth wrote:

Respectfully, I don't think that is correct. I can see why you would rule that way though and I may be wrong.

This is really the same question as whether a Rogue can get a sneak attack from regular invis (not greater) - there are tons of extensive threads on that topic, so it might be best to have a look at one of those to see if there was ever an official answer rather than having the same thing out again. I will have a look if I get the chance.

From invisibility

"The spell ends if the subject attacks any creature. "

An attack is a roll. If you do not roll, you do not attack. If you roll for an attack that was the attack. This is a matter of standard terminology which is why I can understand your confusion.

The invisibility threads are long... but you will notice they typically only have one or two people repeatedly disagreeing with a room full of people.

Also, no, there really isn't an official response if only because it is considered obvious in text. Or at least I have never seen one in all of my thread crawling.

[Laureth]

Yes, as above, I immediately saw that virtually everyone agreed with you. I def don't think this is an FAQ candidate, because it's already been done to death over sneak attack and the vast majority seem to agree.

[DarkPhoenixx]

Wonderful!