re: making a hybrid class for sorcerer and oracle....

[ElyasRavenwood]

How would you go about making such a hybrid?

This is what I have in mind

poor base attack bonus, d6 hit points, Saves Fortitude good, Reflex bad, Will save good.

Skills 4 level

Spell casting access full 9th level access to both sorcerer and oracle spell lists.

Spell per day casting progression as per sorcerer.

Spells known progression as per sorcerer. When character adds a new spell to his spells known he can pick from either the sorcerer or oracle list.

automatic acces to cure/inflict spells

Character picks a blood line and has full access to spells bloodline abilities etc.

Character picks a Mystery and has full access to spells revelations etc.

Character has to pick an oracle curse

Character has arcane pool as per arcanist

Character has arcane exploits like the Arcanist and gains them at the same rate.

Arcane exploits are picked from hybrid classes own list of exploits.

Well this is a rough draft and needs to be paired down.

What do you think? What needs to be cut added or changed?

thank you

[Sundakan]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

Spell casting access full 9th level access to both sorcerer and oracle spell lists.

And already you have busted the class hardcore.

Along with the other stuff, this sounds more like a Gestalt than a Hybrid.

It has a Bloodline, Mystery, AND Arcane Exploits...because why?

You'd be better off building an actual class from the ground up. Its own spell list, some unholy hybrid of Bloodlines and Mysteries (an Arcana-like ability at first level, along with some choosable Revelation equivalents) and perhaps some kind of Blood Magic ability as well. Taking HP or Ability damage to boost spells, maybe?

[Saldiven]

Sundakan has it right. You've pretty much just given the hypothetical class 90%+ of what both the Oracle and the Sorcerer get. If you're making a hybrid, at most, the new class should get 50% of what each class gets.

It would be better, though, to get maybe 30-40% of what each class gets, and make up the rest with new stuff unique to the hybrid class.

[ElyasRavenwood]

Thank you both for your thoughts.

What I put up there was a rough draft, with the intent of snipping stuff of.

I"m not intending to give them everything, but I find sometimes it is easier to pair down then to inflate. and add more .

Looking at the Mystic Theurge, in addition to their spells per day, the only other features they get are combined spells and at 10 level they have a capstone ability where they can cast two spells a round.

Lets get out the shears and cut some of my previous stuff off.

how does this work?

d8 hit points. medium base attack bonus, good fortitude, Poor Dex, and good will saves

2 skill points a level.

Spell per day casting progression as per bard.

Spells known progression as per bard.
automatic acces to cure/inflict spells

character must pick oracle curse.

so while the character has access to both sorcerer and oracle spell lists, they are only a 6th level caster.

You'd be better off building an actual class from the ground up. Its own spell list, some unholy hybrid of Bloodlines and Mysteries (an Arcana-like ability at first level, along with some choosable Revelation equivalents) and perhaps some kind of Blood Magic ability as well. Taking HP or Ability damage to boost spells, maybe?

excellent suggestions I will need to see what I can come up with

[Mortuum]

If I were you I'd consider:

A theme. Hybrid classes need one. "mix of sorcerer and oracle" doesn't count. Maybe go for the idea that it's a worshipper of the sorcerer bloodline critters or something.

Lowest possible hit die, BAB, skills and proficiencies. As a combination between two radically different full casters, this is a pure magic class about having all the spells all the time.

9th level casting with limited access to both lists. You could force members of the class to take an equal number of sorcerer and oracle spells, and you could give them the bonus spells from both a bloodline and a mystery at the cost of some of their ordinary spells known. That would give the class great flexibility for building at the cost of not being quite as flexible in play once you've locked in your spell picks.

A combined bloodline/mystery class feature. Either make it from scratch and give it aspects of both, or make it a single feature that forces the player to choose whether they get their next bloodline power or a new revelation every few levels.

Some kind of curse, negative mutation or code of conduct, not necessarily with the eventual pay-off of the oracle's curses.

If you really want access to tons of different things, you could add a pool of class points that gives the class temporary access to full-powered sorcerer or oracle features instead.

[GozrehTime]

What about moving in the other direction and just eliminating casting altogether? There are lots of bloodline and mystery abilities that would go really well on a warrior type instead. The chassis could be (with no casting) 3/4 or full BaB, good will (unique for a warrior type), a scaling arcane pool, and bloodline/mystery abilities every ~4 levels, maybe a bonus feat or two? I'd play it, but I always want to play magically-augmented warriors, so I may be biased.

[Dragonchess Player]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

How would you go about making such a hybrid?

I'd start with the shaman chassis. The shaman is the hybrid of oracle and witch classes, so it's the closest published equivalent.

Instead of hexes (and probably the spirit animal), I'd give the new class a mix of bloodline abilities and revelations tied to common theme (specific to each related bloodline/mystery pair).

I'd change spellcasting to spontaneous (with limited spells known), rather than prepared, based on Cha. I'd also look at the spell list and granted spells to adjust the options somewhat.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

ElyasRavenwood wrote:

How would you go about making such a hybrid?

Use the existing rules and make a Sorcerer/Oracle/Mystic Theurge,

[Oxylepy]

Soracle
D6 hd
2+Int skills
Slow BAB
Will save is good

Spells known are the same number as a crossblooded sorcerer (so a max of 2 6/7/8/9th level spells, 3 3/4/5th level spells 4 1/2nd level spells, and 8 cantrips) these spells can be taken from either list

Select a Bloodline and a Mystery
Gain the Bonus Skills and Bonus Spells of both
Cannot cast in armor
Sorcerer Proficiencies
Eschew Materials
Take an Oracle's Curse, this never advances

At 1st level you may select to either have the bloodline's arcana, or have the Oracle's curse advance as you level
Select either Inflict or Cure spells to have automatically added to your list of spells known
At 3rd, 7th, 11th, and 15th level you may select either a bloodline ability or a revelation you qualify for by level.
At 20th level you may either choose the final revalation or the final bloodline ability.

Spells you cast can be treated as either Arcane or Divine, chosen as you cast the spell. At 3rd level you get Theurgy as a bonus feat, at 9th level you can cast 2 spells at once (as Spell Synthesis) treating one as divine, and one as arcane, at 13th, 17th, and 19th level this may be used one additional time per day.

This is quick and dirty, but the spells should come out about the same/level either should have, you have some benefits of both, but no where near as many as either.

End result should be moderately balanced for a 9 level dual caster.

Edit- As a non-"quick and dirty" build I'd :
-invent an entirely new bloodline/Mystery system based on crossovers between the two (bones and undeath for instance)
-cross over the curse and arcana into one thing and let that be chosen at first level
-have a bonus spell from a select list for each bloodline/mystery set, but only have it be the normal 9
-treat all spells as being both arcane and divine, at a certain level allow Spell Synthesis with up to 3/day

Probably allow about 5 power/revelations total, but have them be selectable from a list of about ~9-11.

I'm already thinking of cool versions of curses/arcana like Clouded Vision/Umbral, or Wasting/Undead.

[ElyasRavenwood]

Thank you for your thoughts.

Dragon Chess Player, thank you the Shaman sound like a good place to start.

Drahliana Moonrunner, while I could make a sorcerer oracle mystic-theurge class, I run into a big problem namely spell level access.

A mystic Theurge requires the ability to cast 2nd level spells both arcane and divine.

A sorcerer gains access to 2nd level spells at 4th level. An oracle gains access to 2nd level spells at 4th level. So assuming we take the first 4 levels in oracle, we would have access to 2nd level divine spells at 4th level. Levels 5-8 would be spent gaining 4 levels of sorcerer to gain access to 2nd level spells. So at 8th level when a single classed spontaneous caster like a oracle or sorcerer is gaining access to 4th level spells, our character has access to 2nd level divine and arcane spells. And by 10 level with single class spontaneous spell caster would have access to 5th level spells. After couple of levels of mystic theurge at 10 level the character will have access to 3rd level spells.

So I think the idea of a character who has magical power in his blood, and is touched by the gods is an interesting one.

And with a Hybrid class oracle/sorcerer, you could do what you cant do effectively with the multi class system.

Now a Wizard/cleric Mystic theurge is "three" levels behind in accessing spells. For example at 8th level (3 wiz/3 cleric/ 2 MT) a MT gets access to 5th level spells.

Perhaps that could be a bench mark for spell access for arcane/divine spells for a Hybrid Arcane/divine spell casting class.

Oxlepy thank you I like your suggestions I'll have to look up what the spell access for the cross blooded sorcerer. and take a closer look at your build.