I've been searching through the forums for a definite answer on this, and I'm not finding one. If a Necromancer uses the Command Undead feat to take control of several undead, we already know from the FAQ that the control is permanent until they make their save (for intelligent undead), someone else takes control of them, they are destroyed, or are set free.
However, the feat says "you can control any number of undead, so long as their total Hit Dice do not exceed your level." Is that limit per use?
The question is: if a Necromancer can command 20 HD of undead and use the feat several times a day - can they use the feat to command 20 HD (and since it's indefinite), do it again on 20 HD worth of different undead for a total of 40 HD? Then another 20, etc.
I'm trying to figure out the max number of undead HD a Necromancer 20/Archmage 10 can control and other means or ways to chain effects together to build their army. With Animate Dead and one use of Command Undead, I'm at 170 HD.
Seems like someone that powerful should be able to command more than that. I'm not above commanding undead who in turn command undead, or simulacrum of the necromancer etc. if there are any other tricks out there.
Thanks.
You would be capped at controlling 20 HD of undead. You do not, through that feat by itself, gain the ability to control any more than your HD. For example, if you used the command undead feat to mind control a 20 HD skeleton, you would not be able to control one more 1 HD skeleton using just that feat.
If you want to control even more undead make sure to pick up the Command Undead Spell. Use lesser rods of extend spell along side this and watch your undead horde grow! Just don't blast them with any AoE spells...
Command Undead
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a shred of raw meat and a splinter of bone)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one undead creature
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yesThis spell allows you a degree of control over an undead creature. If the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions favorably (treat its attitude as friendly). It will not attack you while the spell lasts. You can give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. Retries are not allowed. An intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing.
A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this spell. When you control a mindless being, you can communicate only basic commands, such as "come here," "go there," "fight," "stand still," and so on. Nonintelligent undead won't resist suicidal or obviously harmful orders.
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the commanded undead (regardless of its Intelligence) breaks the spell.
Your commands are not telepathic. The undead creature must be able to hear you.
You would be capped at controlling 20 HD of undead. You do not, through that feat by itself, gain the ability to control any more than your HD.
If you want to control even more undead make sure to pick up the Command Undead Spell.
Command Undead
School necromancy; Level sorcerer/wizard 2
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a shred of raw meat and a splinter of bone)
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Targets one undead creature
Duration 1 day/level
Saving Throw Will negates; see text; Spell Resistance yesThis spell allows you a degree of control over an undead creature. If the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions favorably (treat its attitude as friendly). It will not attack you while the spell lasts. You can give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do. Retries are not allowed. An intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing.
A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this spell. When you control a mindless being, you can communicate only basic commands, such as "come here," "go there," "fight," "stand still," and so on. Nonintelligent undead won't resist suicidal or obviously harmful orders.
Any act by you or your apparent allies that threatens the commanded undead (regardless of its Intelligence) breaks the spell.
Your commands are not telepathic. The undead creature must be able to hear you.
I checked out that spell, but it can only be cast on one creature at a time. That seems like a rough way to build up an army. Would it be useful to use that on a creature like a Grave Knight who can control undead and then have them control groups of undead along side you?
Its not used to build up your army quickly (that's what animate dead/command undead feat are for) so much as expand it further over time. Like I said (when I edited my above post), you can get rods of extend spell to double this spells duration so it lasts over one month per target. If you command one undead per day with this spell you've just gained 40 members into your army for only 3000 gold and one spell slot/day.
Using it on intelligent undead might be a little dangerous. If the spell breaks for any reason you now have a free willed intelligent undead who probably does not like being mind controlled and also controls sections of your army. It might be best to try to use diplomacy and bribes to get the intelligent undead to willingly work for you.
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The Feat caps out at HD equal to your Cleric (equivalent) level. That's a separate cap to the maximum number of undead you can control via making then with Animate Dead spells (which is 4x caster level HD).
Of course sometimes there's really no need to control your undead all the time: once they're in the general location you want to trash just let them off the leash as you wander off to rinse and repeat with another group. It's not like you're going to have any personal problems if you encounter a few random uncontrolled skelebones shambling towards you or anything.
Its not used to build up your army quickly (that's what animate dead/command undead feat are for) so much as expand it further over time. Like I said (when I edited my above post), you can get rods of extend spell to double this spells duration so it lasts over one month per target. If you command one undead per day with this spell you've just gained 40 members into your army for only 3000 gold and one spell slot/day.
Using it on intelligent undead might be a little dangerous. If the spell breaks for any reason you now have a free willed intelligent undead who probably does not like being mind controlled and also controls sections of your army. It might be best to try to use diplomacy and bribes to get the intelligent undead to willingly work for you.
I see. What about undead that spawn other undead? If you're controlling the ones that spawn, would their spawn also fight on your side?
The character in question is a Human Necromancer 10/Archmage 10 with the necessary mythic spells and the mythic versions of Undead Master and Command Undead. And being the epic level end-of-campaign boss, I'm trying to maximize his undead army :)
If you are using the command undead feat they absolutely would. The controlled spawner would act as a mouthpiece for your orders basically. You wouldn't directly control them, but they would obey their mind-controlled master still.
With the command undead spell you would still have to convince the spawner to do anything it wouldn't ordinarily do or take obviously suicidal actions. As long as the spawner can be convinced it should follow what you say, the spawn will serve you indirectly.
An edit taken out of my previous post:
What race are you? If you have access to it perhaps you would consider playing a Cruoromancer? It is a dhampir only wizard archetype that can control 5 HD of undead per caster level using animate dead instead of 4 HD. You also gain access to a favored class bonus which increases the CL of any spell of the necromancy school (meaning even more undead).
The character in question is a Human Necromancer 10/Archmage 10 with the necessary mythic spells and the mythic versions of Undead Master and Command Undead. And being the epic level end-of-campaign boss, I'm trying to maximize his undead army :)
Ah well, never mind about the dhampir thing then.
The only other way I know of to increase your amount of undead would be the Agent of the Grave prestige class. Levels in that prestige class count twice for animate dead. Problem is, it cuts into your command undead feat and overall CL so idk if its worth it.
Inspired Necromancy (Ex)
When determining the maximum number of Hit Dice of undead he can control with spells like animate dead, a character counts his Agent of the Grave levels twice. This ability does not factor into how many undead he can create with a single casting of a spell. Thus, a cleric 7/Agent of the Grave 3 would be able to control 52 Hit Dice worth of undead with animate dead.
EDIT: If the undead-ish golems (flesh, carrion, bone) weren't so low CR I'd say make some of those too, but they are far too weak.