claudekennilol
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So I came across the shadow caller archetype in Ultimate Intrigue and it really interests me. The shadow is too fragile to be materialized in that any light causes me to lose it for 24 hours if it's any distance away from me (it has to be adjacent to me, extended by 5' for every 5 levels). So it's basically just always my shadow because otherwise in combat we're stuck in place as we can't move simultaneously). It can move freely in an area of darkness, but if a light should pop up, then buh-bye shade.
What this does for me is give permanently give me Skill Focus: Stealth, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Darkvision 60 ft (or increase current Darkvision to 90 ft), +4 (later +8) stealth vs those without darkvision, and shadow/darkness spells I cast at one higher Caster Level.
At level 6 I can shadow jump (su) (as per the shadowdancer ability) for 40' per level per day (so when I gain the ability it starts at 240' and only goes up from there). This seems like it'll be super useful and lots of fun.
At 9th level I can see in darkness for rounds per day based on my level.
At 10th level I get 50% concealment vs anything without darkvision. And I can hide in plain sight even against those that do have darkvision. And the squares around me are always dim-light.
There aren't a lot of spells available to the spiritualist that aren't offensive based. But the few I've picked out that work are..
1st - Dancing Darkness - decrease light by one level - keeping it centered on me for 1 minute per level.
1st - Burst of Adrenaline (+8 to str for a single d20 check) +4 to hit as an immediate action to help with me not being full bab, but fatigued for one round round.
2nd - Darkness (granted access by archetype)
3rd - Deeper Darkness (granted access by archetype)
A couple of thematical spells that a sympathetic GM may allow: Dust of Twilight probably 2nd, Shadow Barbs probably 3rd, Darkvision for allies probably 2nd (obviously not for PFS).
So this all seems really cool. I'm wanting to build a melee spiritualist with this archetype. Without dipping, I can only use simple weapons, kukris, saps, and scythes and only light armor. But I think an Iroran Warpriest (or some other unarmed strike god) would also make a really good dip. The dip would give me Improved Unarmed Strike (more on that below) and Weapon Focus. Also access to more cantrips and some 1st level spells. Another option is a monk. I'd still get IUS, but I'd also get flurry, so would have more than just a single attack, and thus cornugon smash/nightmare fist would synergize better on a full attack. The wisdom also helps with the AC bonus, and then I'll just wands of mage armor instead of actual light armor--but the warpriest would allow me to wear whatever armor I want.
So for feats:
- Nightmare Fist seems very thematic with this character. But it's +2 to damage while in an area of magical darkness (hopefully always) or +4 damage vs shaken foes. And it also gives +2 to acrobatics (meh) and +2 to intimidate (so already at +5 including skill focus).
- Nightmare Weaver - Basically dazzling display but I do it when I cast Darkness.
- Power Attack - for more damage and a prereq, though I'm worried about accuracy
- Cornugon Smash - Intimidate (and thus shaken) for free when Cornugon Smash hits.
Traits
no idea. One would probably be to make stealth a class skill (unless the monk dip is taken).
I'd love to be able to play this in PFS but I just don't see that being possible unless I can guarantee that my allies will all have darkvision (or at least low light vision). Also if it's for PFS my list of choices is somewhat limited. Lastly, again if for PFS, then I wouldn't want to take more than a one level dip (so no fervor) so that I can get the 10th level ability for the Shadow Caller. I am playing in a Rise of the Runelords game, so if my current character dies I may make this guy which opens it up to any race. For PFS dwarf might make the best race (+con/wis, -cha). Intimidating prowess might also go well, but there are only so many feats to go around..
So what do you guys think. Is there enough here to make a viable character?
| Slithery D |
At level 6 I can shadow jump (su) (as per the shadowdancer ability) for 40' per level per day (so when I gain the ability it starts at 240' and only goes up from there). This seems like it'll be super useful and lots of fun. I can basically jump into a flanking position because almost every creature we encounter will have a shadow.
The shadowdancer ability says "The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some dim light." So no, you can't jump to an individual shadow if the ambient light is normal or bright. And if the ambient light adjacent to them is dim light or darkness, the existence of a personal shadow is moot.
claudekennilol
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claudekennilol wrote:The shadowdancer ability says "The limitation is that the magical transport must begin and end in an area with at least some dim light." So no, you can't jump to an individual shadow if the ambient light is normal or bright. And if the ambient light adjacent to them is dim light or darkness, the existence of a personal shadow is moot.
At level 6 I can shadow jump (su) (as per the shadowdancer ability) for 40' per level per day (so when I gain the ability it starts at 240' and only goes up from there). This seems like it'll be super useful and lots of fun. I can basically jump into a flanking position because almost every creature we encounter will have a shadow.
You're right, please look over the rest of it and also offer advice.
| Slithery D |
Also note that your See in Darkness ability isn't very useful in combat, it requires a standard action to activate. It's really quite bad when combined with Deeper Darkness, which is something you have to carry around (blind) on an object unless you want even worse action economy by casting it in combat.
| Slithery D |
What this does for me is give permanently give me Skill Focus: Stealth, Skill Focus: Intimidate, Darkvision 60 ft (or increase current Darkvision to 90 ft), +4 (later +8) stealth vs those without darkvision, and shadow/darkness spells I cast at one higher Caster Level.
The bold part is wrong. You replace Shared Consciousness, which is where the skill focus (and mind affecting bonuses) come from in the base spiritualist. Instead you get a limited (vs. darkvision, but otherwise more powerful) stealth bonus and darkvision.
I wouldn't build towards melee combat with a Spiritualist, you don't have anything to overcome your 3/4 BAB like most classes do. Theoretically you could use magical darkness as a way to debuff enemies and give yourself an advantage, but Deeper Darkness doesn't work because of your See in Darkness activation and duration limitations, and regular Darkness only works if (1) you already have dim light and (2) your enemies don't have darkvision. (Ignoring party interaction effects here.)
The worst thing about this archetype is it strongly limits one of the best phantom abilities, incorporeal scouting. If it ducks through a wall/door more than 10' away (at level 5) and finds any light, poof, you lost it. You can still scout through most doors, or at unlimited range on a dark night or an unlit dungeon, but not around corners or through thick barriers that might have illumination on the other side.
This is a cool archetype, but it's not as useful or strong as I thought on first reading.
claudekennilol
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Deeper darkness will turn regular light into normal darkness. It's only if the light level is already below that when see in darkness is needed.
The bold part is not wrong. Please reread the archetype description. Specifically it's found in the first paragraph of the emotionless description.
I agree that the phantom is not as good as the default, but I'm not approaching this from that perspective. I've just got an empowered shadow.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think it'll be the most powerful character ever, but I think there's enough there to make something work. Especially with some of the stuff I listed out above.
| Lune |
Have you considered Eldritch Heritage to get Shadow Bloodline for Shadow Well? I know you are likely tight on feats but thought it matched the flavor.
Also you could try going down the Scorpion Style line of feats as when a target is in darkness and cannot see it is effectively Blind. If it is Blind it cannot move at full speed without an Acrobatics check thus effectively limiting it's speed. That allows you to jump right to Gorgon's Fist. Medusa's Wrath makes it even better, but actually getting that feat is another story.
You could also go for the Believer's Boon feat and get the Night Domain ability to be effectively invisible (vs. critters without darkvision) in darkness for a few rounds per day.
If you found a way to get Channel Energy you could use the Variant Channeling for the Darkness Domain.
Just some ideas...