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A friend of mine was recently asking about the possible combination of Channelled Revival and Channel Ray.
Now, he's of the opinion that, because Channel Ray increases the range of your Channel Energy, and Channelled Revival uses the range of your Channel Energy (as clarified per this FAQ), that Channelled Revival can be used at Channel Ray's range. It's my opinion that he can't combine the two, because Channel Ray doesn't increase the range of your Channel Energy, it just gives you an option to use a ray instead of a burst at the point of channelling, and as Channelled Revival is not actually channelling, they're incompatible.
We've come to an impasse, as I can't understand how he's interpreting it his way, nor can he seemingly understand how I can see it any other way. So, I thought I'd ask the experienced forumites on their opinions. What do ye think?
Channel Revival isn't channeling. You just use 3 channels.
As a similar example the arcanist can use spell slots to get arcane points, but he is not really casting a spell.
Another example that goes back to channeling is a feat that lets you burn two uses of channeling to channel as a move action. You are not really channeling twice. You are just burning extra uses for an increased benefit.
Other classes also do this with feats or other special abilities.
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It's fairly clear cut but with Channeled revival already having Channel Energy's range I would consider allowing it in a home game.
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It's clear-cut.
EDIT: But I agree with the ninja, it would be fine to allow it in a home game.
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I'm not sure, I could see it both ways. According to Wraithstrikes interpretation, other Feats that alter Channel Energy wouldn't be considered Channeling either, and I'm not sure that's correct.
Secondly, if you look at the full description of Channel Revival, it does paint a slightly different picture.
Channeled Revival
You can expend a large portion of your channeling power to reverse death itself.
Prerequisite: Channel energy 6d6 (positive energy).
Benefit: As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you can expend three uses of your channel energy class feature to restore a dead creature to life as if you had cast the breath of life spell.
And while I do agree with Wraithstrikes first example, (spells to arcane points), the second one seems to disprove it as you would actually still be channeling, just using more to augment it. Channel Energy is a bit of an oddity because it's not really a defined thing in the game. A Necromancer Wizard can Channel Energy, but is limited.
I'd fall more on the side of they do work together, as Channel Revival is still Channeling, just a different form, but I can see both sides.
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I'm not sure, I could see it both ways. According to Wraithstrikes interpretation, other Feats that alter Channel Energy wouldn't be considered Channeling either, and I'm not sure that's correct.
Secondly, if you look at the full description of Channel Revival, it does paint a slightly different picture.
Channeled Revival
You can expend a large portion of your channeling power to reverse death itself.
Prerequisite: Channel energy 6d6 (positive energy).
Benefit: As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you can expend three uses of your channel energy class feature to restore a dead creature to life as if you had cast the breath of life spell.And while I do agree with Wraithstrikes first example, (spells to arcane points), the second one seems to disprove it as you would actually still be channeling, just using more to augment it. Channel Energy is a bit of an oddity because it's not really a defined thing in the game. A Necromancer Wizard can Channel Energy, but is limited.
I'd fall more on the side of they do work together, as Channel Revival is still Channeling, just a different form, but I can see both sides.
You aren't channeling there either. You are expending the energy you would use if you were going to channel(The 'so many times per day' is your mechanical version of 'channeling energy pool' 'real life' concept). You are spending that energy to do something other than channel.
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Um, yes you are.
Necromancy School
The dread and feared necromancer commands undead and uses the foul power of unlife against his enemies.
Power over Undead (Su): You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Charisma modifier. At 20th level, undead cannot add their channel resistance to the save against this ability.
As we can see, Channel Energy isn't a single specific thing, but rather a variety. And while you can expend energy for different outcomes, it's still Channel Energy.
Also just realized that channel ray wouldn't do much anyways since the ray is 30ft per die of the channel.
I'm not sure, I could see it both ways. According to Wraithstrikes interpretation, other Feats that alter Channel Energy wouldn't be considered Channeling either, and I'm not sure that's correct.
Secondly, if you look at the full description of Channel Revival, it does paint a slightly different picture.
Channeled Revival
You can expend a large portion of your channeling power to reverse death itself.
Prerequisite: Channel energy 6d6 (positive energy).
Benefit: As a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, you can expend three uses of your channel energy class feature to restore a dead creature to life as if you had cast the breath of life spell.And while I do agree with Wraithstrikes first example, (spells to arcane points), the second one seems to disprove it as you would actually still be channeling, just using more to augment it. Channel Energy is a bit of an oddity because it's not really a defined thing in the game. A Necromancer Wizard can Channel Energy, but is limited.
I'd fall more on the side of they do work together, as Channel Revival is still Channeling, just a different form, but I can see both sides.
Also my interpretation does not apply across the board to every feat. You should call out those other feats to be sure you understand how I am looking at it. Some other feats do have you channeling, but not the one the OP is asking about.
Um, yes you are.
Necromancy School
The dread and feared necromancer commands undead and uses the foul power of unlife against his enemies.
Power over Undead (Su): You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Charisma modifier. At 20th level, undead cannot add their channel resistance to the save against this ability.
As we can see, Channel Energy isn't a single specific thing, but rather a variety. And while you can expend energy for different outcomes, it's still Channel Energy.
The wording is not the same. This feat specifically says you are channeling.
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Um, yes you are.
Necromancy School
The dread and feared necromancer commands undead and uses the foul power of unlife against his enemies.
Power over Undead (Su): You receive Command Undead or Turn Undead as a bonus feat. You can channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier, but only to use the selected feat. You can take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel. The DC to save against these feats is equal to 10 + 1/2 your wizard level + your Charisma modifier. At 20th level, undead cannot add their channel resistance to the save against this ability.
As we can see, Channel Energy isn't a single specific thing, but rather a variety. And while you can expend energy for different outcomes, it's still Channel Energy.
It is a variety of things. You can 'use' your channel energy class feature to do things other than heal or harm. But, there are also things that let you expend uses of channel energy without channeling energy.
You channel energy to turn undead or command undead. You are still creating the burst of energy just like a regular use of channel energy, it just has a different effect on those in the area.
But for channeled revival you are not using the channel energy ability, you are using uses of channel energy to do a different action altogether.
Channel Ray can be used with any ability where you are actually using the channel energy class feature. That includes any ability that is an actual channel energy even with different end effects. These are usually noted by the fact that you are still making the burst effect.
But it is not used on any ability that expends uses of channel energy but is not actually doing a channel energy action.
Just as, for paladins, their mercy class feature does not get applied to their channel energy when it uses two of their lay on hands uses.
It is possible this is cutting too thin a line. You will need to get a FAQ for true clarification.
Also Beckett just to be clear I am not saying that every feat that gives you more options for channeling means that you are not channeling. I was only speaking for the specific feat in question.
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I understand, and I did say I could see it from both sides.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that as "Channeling" is not really a defined term, some people are interpreting it to mean specifically the class feature while others to mean more along the lines of any ability that uses that pool.