Jumping from roof or ledge and attacking...


Rules Questions


... any rules for this? If not, how would you rule it for 1st lvl characters?


I don't know of any rules for it.

From the hip, I'd require an Acrobatics check (perhaps a DC 10+1/10' of height?) and if successful treat it as a charge combined with an Overrun attempt against the target. The player would take damage for falling as per the rules, would provoke with his Overrun attempt as normal (if the target was aware of the attack) and would have to make a second Acrobatics check (same DC) to remain prone once the attack had resolved.

Alternately, instead of the Overrun attempt, you could allow the player to add his falling damage to his attack if the Acrobatics check and the attack roll were both successful (meaning that both he and his target would take the falling damage and the target would take the damage from a standard charge attack as well).


I'm not aware of any rules for this. but based on this feat I'd go with:
Acrobatics check to avoid the damage from the fall, if successful treat it as a charge attack. If they fail and take damage they fall prone adjacent to target as per normal falling rules.

If they can fall any distance without falling prone, treat it as a charge attack.


Add in that they cannot fall an unlimited distance as part of the charge. While one could obviously fall farther in six seconds than they could hope to run in the same amount of time (a person would fall about 530 feet in six full seconds), working out that math is wonky and a pain in the behind to do in the middle of determining how far the character can move.

When I have adjudicated this at my table in the past, I simply combine the total distance moved, horizontally and vertically, to determine how far the charging character can move. So, if a character ran 20' to a ledge and jumped down 20' to the floor below, he/she would have another 20' of distance to charge (assuming 30' base move, straight line between start point and target, and a successful Acrobatics check).


LamentoftheLost wrote:
... any rules for this? If not, how would you rule it for 1st lvl characters?

Would be a move action to jump down and a standard action to attack. The move action would involve an acrobatics check with appropriate modifiers for the distance jumped down.

I would probably allow a +1 to hit for being 'higher than your opponent' for the attack. Perhaps add in some falling damage die/dice to the attack damage roll for the distance dropped if the acrobatics check passes but that part is not RAW just what I would rule. That is assuming the attack is done during the fall and you land next to your opponent.


I would treat jumping off of a ledge and onto someone differently to falling off a ledge and attacking them with a weapon before landing next to them. The scenarios I consider relevant are:
1. A slam attack (landing on the person)
2. A Weapon attack, using the momentum of the fall to add damage
3. Slam + Weapon
4. Bull Rush/Trip/Overrun
5. Slam + Bull Rush/Trip/Overrun

For all scenarios, the falling rules that are relevant:

CRB, Falling wrote:

Creatures that fall take 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet fallen, to a maximum of 20d6. Creatures that take lethal damage from a fall land in a prone position.

If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Acrobatics check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage. Thus, a character who slips from a ledge 30 feet up takes 3d6 damage. If the same character deliberately jumps, he takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 2d6 points of lethal damage. And if the character leaps down with a successful Acrobatics check, he takes only 1d6 points of nonlethal damage and 1d6 points of lethal damage from the plunge.

Falls onto yielding surfaces (soft ground, mud) also convert the first 1d6 of damage to nonlethal damage. This reduction is cumulative with reduced damage due to deliberate jumps and the Acrobatics skill.
...

Falling Objects
Table: Damage from Falling Objects
Object Size Damage
Small 2d6
Medium 3d6
Large 4d6
Huge 6d6
Gargantuan 8d6
Colossal 10d6

Just as characters take damage when they fall more than 10 feet, so too do they take damage when they are hit by falling objects.

Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their size and the distance they have fallen. Table: Damage from Falling Objects determines the amount of damage dealt by an object based on its size. Note that this assumes that the object is made of dense, heavy material, such as stone. Objects made of lighter materials might deal as little as half the listed damage, subject to GM discretion. For example, a Huge boulder that hits a character deals 6d6 points of damage, whereas a Huge wooden wagon might deal only 3d6 damage. In addition, if an object falls less than 30 feet, it deals half the listed damage. If an object falls more than 150 feet, it deals double the listed damage. Note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage as it deals.

Dropping an object on a creature requires a ranged touch attack. Such attacks generally have a range increment of 20 feet. If an object falls on a creature (instead of being thrown), that creature can make a DC 15 Reflex save to halve the damage if he is aware of the object. Falling objects that are part of a trap use the trap rules instead of these general guidelines.

My rulings would be:

General: I would allow a character to charge or take the DC15 Acrobatics roll, but not both. If they are charging towards the opponent then they are not trying to land lightly.

Scenario 1 - Slam Attack: You are trying to use your body to injure the opponent as much as possible whilst minimising damage to yourself. Effectively you are dropping an object (yourself) onto a creature. This is a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 20 feet. As you are throwing yourself the reflex save does not apply. Assuming the fall is between 30 and 150 feet and the character is medium sized then the fall will inflict 3d6 of damage. I would ignore the the note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage in this instance and instead use the rules for falling, including treating a successful hit as a fall onto a yielding surface. If the player misses they hit the ground rather than the creature.

Scenario 2 - A weapon attack: You are trying to use the force of gravity to add extra power to your swing. I would grant the +1 bonus to hit for being on higher ground. You are not actually trying to slam your opponent and even using the charge rules does not grant extra damage and you would be going not much faster than if you were running so counter-intuitively I would not grant extra damage (but see below). Other than that the character would take falling damage as normal.

Scenario 3 - Slam + Weapon: You have braced or are otherwise holding the weapon in such a way to be the focus point of a slam attack. I would resolve the slam attack as above and grant the +1 to hit with the weapon attack. I would also let the weapon deal double damage as if it had the brace condition. However, as the character's jump was optimised for bracing the weapon rather than slamming with minimal harm to self, they would also receive the slam damage (if the slam part is successful) because they are a falling object in addition to their falling damage.

Scenario 4 - Bull Rush/Trip/Overrun: You are trying to knock the creature out of the way or to the floor. You are not landing on the creature, just using your momentum to add more force to your combat maneuver. I would increase the character's effective size by two steps. Resolve falling damage as normal, note the yielding surface does not apply as you are not landing on the cretaure.

Scenario 5 - Slam + Bull Rush/Trip/Overrun: You are trying to knock the creature out of the way or to the floor by having a significant portion of your mass hit the creature as you land. Resolve the slam attack, the damage can either be damage or a bonus to your CMB or a 50/50 split determined before rolling. The character takes the slam attack damage as a falling object if the slam hits as their positioning was optimised for the combat maneuver and the falling damage as normal, taking into account that if they hit they are landing on a yielding surface.

Rationale: Where the character is landing next to the creature in scenarios 2 and 4 then they are deliberately jumping so the bonus in the attack is offset by the falling damage. This carries across in scenario 1 where the character's own body is the weapon and so shouldn't be penalised twice for the fall. In scenarios 3 and 5, there is the potential to deal a lot of extra damage so there is the double falling damage and falling object penalty. Note that the falling object penalty only applies if the slam was successful, whereas the falling damage always applies but is mitigated on a successful hit by counting the target as a yielding surface.


Would you count a person as a soft target? Baring heavy armor that is.


LamentoftheLost wrote:
Would you count a person as a soft target? Baring heavy armor that is.

Yes, even with heavy armour. It's the fact that the person would buckle and stagger that would make them a yielding surface, not what they were wearing. Though the jumper would have to successfully hit with a slam to land on them and gain the benefit of using the person as a yielding surface. If they missed with the slam then they have just hit the floor, which may or may not be a yielding surface.


Thanks, you've given me quite a bit to think about. :-)

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