|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hello! Some time ago, James Raine, also known as FaxCelestis on this and other forums, started a project he dubbed "Tzocatl, The First Language". Drawing on themes from the Aztecs and other native American cultures, Tzocatl is a skill-based magic system evoking the power of names and the spoken word. Unfortunately, James was unable to finish this project, but I've stepped in to help see this project through to completion. Because James' original thread is somewhat dated and there have been more than a few changes to the materials (also because it's easier for me to update and incorporate feedback if I own the links in the OP) I'm starting a new thread to continue playtesting and receiving feedback so that Dreamscarred Press can see James project through to completion.
Here are the links to this exciting new(ish) project!
Downloadable .pdf through Dropbox
Please feel free to peruse and provide feedback on the linked materials!
You forgot to give permission for the google doc.
Looks like a truenamer, plays like a pool-free ethermancer. It'll work, and work well, but a single overtuned ability will strain your system to the limit. Double your normal due diligence, chief.
Looks like a truenamer, plays like a pool-free ethermancer. It'll work, and work well, but a single overtuned ability will strain your system to the limit. Double your normal due diligence, chief.Thanks for the advice Bradley! I definitely appreciate it, particularly coming from you :)
Thanks, chief! I'm quite impressed with the cojones you're showing on this design. None of the classical limiter styles are present, so you can't just vomit up abilities within a power range and call it a day. If it works in the end, it'll mean you could be a watchmaker.
|
|
Thanks, chief! I'm quite impressed with the cojones you're showing on this design. None of the classical limiter styles are present, so you can't just vomit up abilities within a power range and call it a day. If it works in the end, it'll mean you could be a watchmaker.Looks like a truenamer, plays like a pool-free ethermancer. It'll work, and work well, but a single overtuned ability will strain your system to the limit. Double your normal due diligence, chief.Thanks for the advice Bradley! I definitely appreciate it, particularly coming from you :)
James is really responsible for hammering out the ground work on this one, and I'm almost a little ashamed to be riding his coattails to glory on it, truth be told. Fortunately I've been spending a lot of time working on "all day magic" styles of design and I'm inheriting work with a solid core and detailed design notes, so I think that this is going to be something pretty special.
Aye, just be careful with one thing. Hard crowd control and all-day shouldn't mix much, and you're already doing it all over the place with your abilities with 5-6 cadences.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Good to see some first lingual freeness. ;)
|
|
Fixed Phantom Guardian, made some adjustments to Paladin of the Holy Word, and cleaned up some of the change tracking I missed during the last big update (let me know if you stumble across any more verbage that has been lined through and looks out of place).
Still working on larger changes to the Litany and Edict systems (as well as fixing the Studied Edict feat, which is anywhere from "meh", to wildly broken, to "I don't even..." depending on the edict), hoping to have those up sometime tomorrow.
To elaborate a bit on the upcoming Litany and Edict changes-
Right now the system really promotes constant rerolls during an free moment to try and squeeze the most out of long term buffs, so I'm going to shift all of the long duration buffs over to Litanies, open the number of litanies you can have active at any one time a bit, and remove the random element from these effects, as well as a few supporting changes to balance these effects. The Edicts that are not recategorized will continue to function largely as they do now, to preserve the feel and function of the system. These changes should also serve to reinforce the intent for the Warspeaker to be the superior martial character, while the Advocate has more of a caster/support focus.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
" Failing to surpass the base Tzocatl DC for an edict indicates that the edict’s base effects still occur, but the advocate is unable to augment the edict through the use of emphases, cadences, suffixes, or other effects."
Does this mean that if I roll a 14 to activate Blade Barrage it does its base 1d8 at 30' or does it mean there's no effect for a 14... hope for at least a 15 next round...
From a larger perspective do my -5s for consecutive uses mean I'm more and more likely to have nothing happen or I am more and more likely to have to manage with the base effect?
BTW... I have been eagerly awaiting this since it's announcement. Dreamscarred continues to impress me with it's ability to reimagine systems workably and intestingly. I look forward to more.
Any hints on what sorts of magic items we can expect for this ;)
|
|
" Failing to surpass the base Tzocatl DC for an edict indicates that the edict’s base effects still occur, but the advocate is unable to augment the edict through the use of emphases, cadences, suffixes, or other effects."
Does this mean that if I roll a 14 to activate Blade Barrage it does its base 1d8 at 30' or does it mean there's no effect for a 14... hope for at least a 15 next round...
It means it works, but only at the very base effect.
From a larger perspective do my -5s for consecutive uses mean I'm more and more likely to have nothing happen or I am more and more likely to have to manage with the base effect?
The latter.
BTW... I have been eagerly awaiting this since it's announcement. Dreamscarred continues to impress me with it's ability to reimagine systems workably and intestingly. I look forward to more.Any hints on what sorts of magic items we can expect for this ;)
I'm glad you're interested! I won't be giving any hints on the magic items just yet, but I'm hoping to bust out the next big update over the next couple of days so you can see for yourself ;)
I'm glad you're interested! I won't be giving any hints on the magic items just yet, but I'm hoping to bust out the next big update over the next couple of days so you can see for yourself ;)
Damn was hoping for that update by tonight. Planning to intro an advocate (hmmm don't like that name) in tomorrow nights game. Work with what I got.. which is pretty cool IMO.
Hope the thought juices are flowing Ssalarn!
Oscar
|
|
I'm glad you're interested! I won't be giving any hints on the magic items just yet, but I'm hoping to bust out the next big update over the next couple of days so you can see for yourself ;)
Damn was hoping for that update by tonight. Planning to intro an advocate (hmmm don't like that name) in tomorrow nights game. Work with what I got.. which is pretty cool IMO.
Hope the thought juices are flowing Ssalarn!
Oscar
Sorry about the delay! I've been trying to split my attention between Tzocatl and Arcforge, and Arcforge kind of picked up momentum and took over the bulk of my attention. I'll be taking a small break from the 6th to the 11th for a family event, so my plan is to have all the big updates for both projects up by the end of the day on the 5th so everyone has time to play and test things while I'm AFK.
Sorry about the delay! I've been trying to split my attention between Tzocatl and Arcforge, and Arcforge kind of picked up momentum and took over the bulk of my attention. I'll be taking a small break from the 6th to the 11th for a family event, so my plan is to have all the big updates for both projects up by the end of the day on the 5th so everyone has time to play and test things while I'm AFK.I'm glad you're interested! I won't be giving any hints on the magic items just yet, but I'm hoping to bust out the next big update over the next couple of days so you can see for yourself ;)
Damn was hoping for that update by tonight. Planning to intro an advocate (hmmm don't like that name) in tomorrow nights game. Work with what I got.. which is pretty cool IMO.
Hope the thought juices are flowing Ssalarn!
Oscar
Cool, looking forward to it : )
A comment on For I Am Eternal. I think the flavor is really cool, but it is really hard to actually make use of the feat. First of all, you need a second truenamer in your party. Second, it actually becomes harder for an equal level truenamer to resurrect you the higher level you are, since your Tzocatl check only increases with 1/2 your hitdice. A level 20 truenamer needs to roll a 30 to resurrect his equal level friend but only has +10 on his check (assuming their intelligence is the same.)
I feel that it should be easier to resurrect a more powerful truenamer, to the point that a level 20 truenamer could be resurrected if someone even accidentally speaks something that sounds similar to their truename. That way, you could have a powerful dark lord still referred to as "He who must not be named" for generations. Or maybe Tzocatl died out as a language because they kept resurrecting some evil wizard every few years :p
Also, I don't really like the 1/year restriction. It is very campaign dependent. In kingmaker the feat might work two or three times but in a shorter adventure you would only ever get one use. Besides, as a level 18 feat, I think its pretty safe to have it work once per day.
I wanted to apologize for not getting an update out last night as predicted; unfortunately I had a sick coworker and ended up pulling several 10 hour shifts at the day job that just didn't leave me any time to get anything else done.
Thanks for the update Ssalarn : ) Hope your coworker is feeling better. Have a good week!
Darn, thats too bad. You're a good coworker though.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
LOL
OK, introduced an Advocate to my weekly game Friday past and we had a TPK in the first 30 minutes. I was replacing my fire wielding Warlock Vigilante and the first fight out of the gate we face 2 Trolls (We are 5th level). So not a one of us had any fire and we all died because the damn trolls kept getting back up : )
My Advocate started off strong with a 19 on his Tzocatl roll so there was a blade waiting to fly ! Then I missed with the to hit. And it just kept going like that, one roll or the other kept fubaring me. Don't get me wrong the mechanic isn't terrible but damn it hurts at lower levels.
Now I realize Barrage of Blades gives all sorts of bonuses to hit but I couldn't catch a break. Anyway we've started Reign of Winter now and I am going to give this another try... my luck can't be that bad can it?
[Spits over left shoulder three times, spins around and makes a hand sign to ward off evil : ]
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
LOL
OK, introduced an Advocate to my weekly game Friday past and we had a TPK in the first 30 minutes.
Post your build, it would be a nice "in memoriam" to the poor guy.
in fact, I think from my perspective as a player, that playtesters posting their builds is super revealing on how they (products in playtest) are being used. That could actually be super insightful, but I have no idea.
So after a few sessions with my Warspeaker, this is what I got:
Played him 6th level, and just recently hit 7th level. Using a +2 str, +2 cha, -2 int race. Thanks to Words of Power, he is very good at beat sticking, easily getting +3 to attack and damage by round two. I don't find this to be a bad thing though.
I ended up tossing a feat at Heavy Armor proficiency just because I wanted the AC. Its not like I wasn't already slowed down with medium armor.
The bonus warcry and say my name feats have granted me significant utility. And The Land Shall Tremble is what makes my Warspeaker have a lot of utility. Expending 2 warcries to deny 5 foot steps has been huge in our game. It has stopped full attacks, retreats, and helped my party stay safe. With this feat chain, my Warspeaker feels like a tank.
I was surprised at how little Litanies have come into play. So far I am only able to use apprentice level litanies, but looking at the initiate level litanies does not excite me. They don't seem to provide the Warspeaker with utility outside combat. If anything, I want to see more litanies I can use outside of combat.
LOL
OK, introduced an Advocate to my weekly game Friday past and we had a TPK in the first 30 minutes. I was replacing my fire wielding Warlock Vigilante and the first fight out of the gate we face 2 Trolls (We are 5th level). So not a one of us had any fire and we all died because the damn trolls kept getting back up : )My Advocate started off strong with a 19 on his Tzocatl roll so there was a blade waiting to fly ! Then I missed with the to hit. And it just kept going like that, one roll or the other kept fubaring me. Don't get me wrong the mechanic isn't terrible but damn it hurts at lower levels.
Now I realize Barrage of Blades gives all sorts of bonuses to hit but I couldn't catch a break. Anyway we've started Reign of Winter now and I am going to give this another try... my luck can't be that bad can it?
[Spits over left shoulder three times, spins around and makes a hand sign to ward off evil : ]
Correction to this... wrote this while stupid (sorry my medications impact my memory quite seriously) pulled out my notes and...
We were fighting a Rope Golem not a Troll. I could remember we really wanted fire... so foolishly went with Troll instead of getting my notes.
Anyway, it's fresher in my head now.
My character was a 5th level Advocate, Peri-blooded Aasimar built with 25 points.
Str 10
Dex 16
Con 14
Int 20
Wis 10
Cha 09
I built him with some combat ability because I was considering taking the Rhetorical Blade Prestige Class.
In our games we receive a free feat for providing a history with our character, or a sketch or really anything that shows you put more thought into the character than just jotting down numbers...
My Tzocatl Training was +10 (++11 Creation)
Specialized (Creation)
History: Favored Edict: Blade Barrage
1st: Weapon Finesse
2nd: Esoterica: Hadn't decided yet
3rd: Two weapon fighting
3rd Bonus:Favored Lexicon (Creation)
4th: Litany: ... of Daggers
5th: Hadn't decided on a feat yet
5th: Esoterica: Litany of Daggers
So like I wrote, Rope Golem... and at first I thought Hey I am so lucky that Blade Barrage is not subject to SR, but my dice hated me that night.
So that was my thinking for my Advocate possibly Rhetorical Blade... When I do intro him again anyone have any ideas on how to do him better?
|
|
I was surprised at how little Litanies have come into play. So far I am only able to use apprentice level litanies, but looking at the initiate level litanies does not excite me. They don't seem to provide the Warspeaker with utility outside combat. If anything, I want to see more litanies I can use outside of combat.
Heard and noted :)
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Just wanted to jump in and let everyone know that this project has not been forgotten, and we've been continuing development and playtest integration behind the scenes while some other things were hashed out on the business end. Updates will be coming shortly, with the primary changes being-
Litanies will no longer be rolled for, but will always operate off a fixed base of 10. This is to minimize "power fiddling" at the table where you're spending your free time constantly rerolling long term buffs to squeeze out some extra numbers, so things should be much simpler for players and GMs alike.
All buffing effects with durations that would typically span multiple combats are being rolled into Litanies. Edicts will be solely short term or instantaneous effects.
Some edicts have been recategorized as litanies, and we'll have more of both available in the upcoming update.
New archetypes for the Bard and Ranger will be appearing.
Good to hear from you Ssalarn, the changes sound good and I look forward to testing them at our table : )
I'm eager to check out the new limits on litanies... the idea of having several active at once is enticing.. hell if it's even 2 active at level 10 that would be cool. Still checking back every day to look for anything new ; )
|
|
I'm eager to check out the new limits on litanies... the idea of having several active at once is enticing.. hell if it's even 2 active at level 10 that would be cool. Still checking back every day to look for anything new ; )
Sorry it's been taking awhile! I thought I'd have the Arcforge updates better in place so that project could have some playtest time without requiring as much active design work, but I made some errors on a couple key items that were uncovered in the GitP forums and I needed to jump on those before they were buried in the thread.
The new litanies, since they're replacing a lot of buffing effects that used to be covered by edicts, will be stackable for the Advocate at a rate of 1+1 per 8 levels (so 2 at 8th and 3 at 16th), and for the Warspeaker they'll be available at a rate of 1+1 per 5 levels. Obviously you'll know more litanies than that, but it should be an adequate amount of active buffs to maintain character effectiveness.
Would it be possible to add the ability to create more than one weapon at a time to Eternal Armament for those of us that dual wield?
Is it possible to use Say my name ... and be at peace on yourself by speaking your own truename?
|
|
Would it be possible to add the ability to create more than one weapon at a time to Eternal Armament for those of us that dual wield?
Yeah, that seems reasonable. Let me look into it.
Is it possible to use Say my name ... and be at peace on yourself by speaking your own truename?
I don't have a direct line to James to see what he intended with that, but I'm going to go ahead and say "yes". By a strict rules interpretation, you meet all of the qualifications when you say your own name, and the Pathfinder precedent is that you count as your own ally, so I'm going to say that yes, you can trigger that ability on yourself.
I realize this is most likely dead but if there's still life in this guy I'd sure like to hear about. I wish we could have seen the revamp of the loyalties and edicts...
Still love the idea... and making a 12th level cohort with the current write up... which is what brought me here.
Thanks