| Alshoodone |
I'm having a really hard time figuring out how to properly explain the way this question really works, so bare with me. I'm going to have to use the exact numbers to do it any justice.
Let's assume, for all intents and purposes, that the party is level 1.
A Challenge Rating 3 encounter gives no less than 1200 gp in wealth.
A level 4 NPC, equipped to his full power, can carry a Ring of Protection, which is 2000 gp, as well as Composite Longbow and some other things, until he gets to 2400 in wealth.
The NPC's, at all points, depending on Medium, Fast, or Slow progression, always give double the numbers on the loot suggestions.
My question, after careful clarification is this. Are the values on "Table: Treasure per Encounter" in regards to purchased wealth, or Sold wealth? a Ring of Protection +1 is 2000 gp, but if sold at half it's worth 1000 gp, which, ironically is the exact wealth a level 2 character should have.
The table in question is found here, after a few scrolls down.
Gamemastering, Core Rulebook
| MrCharisma |
I think you can meta-game this a bit.
If the item is something your players are going to use (like a ring of protection) the it would be the higher number, because if they wanted to get that item (and they do) that's how much they'd have to spend.
If the item is something none of them are going to use (like an exotic weapon no-one has proficiency for) you can count it as the lower number, since they're just going to sell it anyway.
The "Treasure pre encounter" and "wealth by level" tables are guides more than strict rules. If you find your players are getting behind their WBL (wealth by level) throw in a few extra treasures. If you find they're getting ahead of their WBL have them fight some enemy types that don't typically drop treasure.
| JohnHawkins |
I treat the value of all magic items as the sale value to be consistent, as in the long run they will probably get rid of all of them in order to upgrade.
Also particularly at low level I don't worry about the players having a more or less than by WBL as at low levels one item can push them over the limit and it will eventually even out, at higher levels it is easier to stay 'close' to the guidelines as the wealth is easier to break down (a +1 ring is a small amount of money to an 8th level pc).
Also while your 4th level npc may have double the suggested loot your CR3 Ogre may have a club and a selection of fine smells , so the wealth averages out. Not every encounter has to provide the suggested wealth you can move it around particularly if the wealth is going to be none useful items like coins or jewelry it makes little difference if every goblin has 20 gp or the chief has a chest with 2000gp
| Guru-Meditation |
A Challenge Rating 3 encounter gives no less than 1200 gp in wealth.
No.
Get away from the MMO-thoughts that a Dire Hyena or somesuch must have a backpack in which it carries CR-appropiate loot around for heroes to find.
Many monsters simply have no loot, especially unintelligent wilderness predadtors. Others might have some loot from the rests of their previous victims, like an excreted ring, or a slightly chewed on +1 Shield, but you need to find their lairs for it. And still others are wealthy, like most combat NPCs who have cash and fine equipment just ready to pluck from their fresh corpses , ready to use.
The tables you are looking at are to be read with the "in this rough ballpark should stuff be in the long average".
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To your specific question:
When wealth, value or price is talked about in the rules it ALWAYS means the buying price (EX: 2.000 for a Rop +1). If the sell- or the creating-price is meant, it is EXPLICITLY stated then.
| Alshoodone |
@Guru-Meditation
I'm not foolish enough to give my Hyenas greataxes, thank you. I'm aware that animals don't carry gear, and I wasn't about to give them any. I'm a blatant dungeon maker, and I tend to avoid open-world areas, so most of my games are actually very instanced areas. (My party tends to consists of explorers, and cavern-divers, or people who are just looking for the next ruins to explore.)
If I have Three encounters, all of which are Cr 3, then that means that the party gets, in total, 3600 gp in sellable wealth (Apparently, as I like the way Hawkins explained it, seeing as they'd sell it all eventually.) They don't get 1200 per fight, though, as some loot will be in rooms with no fights at all, and some enemies may have extra loot (but never more than what the game suggests.)
This does however satisfy my question, though.
| GM 1990 |
@Guru-Meditation
I'm not foolish enough to give my Hyenas greataxes, thank you. I'm aware that animals don't carry gear, and I wasn't about to give them any. I'm a blatant dungeon maker, and I tend to avoid open-world areas, so most of my games are actually very instanced areas. (My party tends to consists of explorers, and cavern-divers, or people who are just looking for the next ruins to explore.)If I have Three encounters, all of which are Cr 3, then that means that the party gets, in total, 3600 gp in sellable wealth (Apparently, as I like the way Hawkins explained it, seeing as they'd sell it all eventually.) They don't get 1200 per fight, though, as some loot will be in rooms with no fights at all, and some enemies may have extra loot (but never more than what the game suggests.)
This does however satisfy my question, though.
I tend to run the "on corpse" loot on the low end, which it typically is if you're using the bestiary. Then, similar to what you mention, I like to have out of the way things found, or add some odd/consumable magic items to random area like around the base of an killer plant encounter as left-overs from prior people/adventurers.
however, what I've noticed is now my group is 4th level, and they're -significantly- behind WBL. But w/o that guide I wouldn't have really thought so as I run a little lower power/magic game and keep the PCs hungry.Monstrous humanoid and other bestiary loot tends to rack up slower than the WBL seems to be the case, so you have to supplement over time. which is fine if you like ruin/dungeon crawls which are going to have treasure on things like statues (eye gem stones, etc) with no fight, or protected by a trap which doesn't list any loot.
| Chengar Qordath |
On the topic of getting loot from animals, it can depend a bit on how you're running the game. I was in a game once where the party's ranger put ranks into Craft (leatherworking) and the GM allowed that to extend to working with the skins and taxidermy. Suffice to say a lot of rich merchants wound up with fancy new rugs and/or hunting trophies.
| Knight Magenta |
So it makes sense to count the loot as its sellable value. Consider, the first ring of protection will be worth 2k, but the 5th and all the others after only 1k. also, NPCs should not spend all there wealth on one item ( there is a chart :) ) So you will get some amount of money 'wasted' in items like scale mail and masterwork ogre hooks.
Also, PCs are expected to gain more than the wealth by level each level. This is because they will likely spend quite a bit of money on consumables and 5k diamonds over their career.