So for a character I want to make, I need a fox animal companion. A familiar doesn't work due to not being able to take feats twice even with beast-bonded witch. Anyway I was wondering if anyone could help me convert a to an animal companion. The one thing I need of it besides being a fox is IT HAS TO stay tiny size.
P.S. if I posted this in the wrong spot please move it.
Well, this thread should go in Suggestions/House Rules, not third-party products.
Tghat said, this will require some substantial conversation with your GM. The best solution is probably arranging some sort of Dex-to-damage option, or, better still, resolving that "not being able to take feats twice" issue with your GM. Either way, you'll need house rules. There are no Tiny animal companions.
Yeah, animal companions receive feats and such because they are essentially a combat feature, hence why they have a tendency to be Medium/Large. I think your best bet would be to talk your GM into allowing a fox familiar to simply gain extra feats.
Well, this thread should go in Suggestions/House Rules, not third-party products.
That said, this will require some substantial conversation with your GM. The best solution is probably arranging some sort of Dex-to-damage option, or, better still, resolving that "not being able to take feats twice" issue with your GM. Either way, you'll need house rules. There are no Tiny animal companions.
Thank you, and I don't mind loosing damage, but I am the GM. However I am trying to make this balanced animal companion in case I want to use it in future when I play. Also because the hunter who this belongs to is going be helping them.
Anyway as for the beast-bonded thing. I also kinda am against using beast bonded witch as it limits the feat capabilities, and length at which I can do the main combo of this.
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I don't understand what you mean by "can't take feats twice"?
Maybe if we understood your concept better we might be able to help?
So I am going be a kitsune and take the Fox Shape feat asap, hopefully being a look alike to my fox companion. Then with my fox companion at my side, we will both take the Overwhelm and flank everything and everyone. Gnawing their legs raw. While using feats that rely on flanking to boost us up even more.
I figured it was something like that. Unfortunately...
Tiny, Diminutive, and Fine Creatures
Very small creatures take up less than 1 square of space. This means that more than one such creature can fit into a single square. A Tiny creature typically occupies a space only 2-1/2 feet across, so four can fit into a single square. 25 Diminutive creatures or 100 Fine creatures can fit into a single square. Creatures that take up less than 1 square of space typically have a natural reach of 0 feet, meaning they can't reach into adjacent squares. They must enter an opponent's square to attack in melee. This provokes an attack of opportunity from the opponent. You can attack into your own square if you need to, so you can attack such creatures normally. Since they have no natural reach, they do not threaten the squares around them. You can move past them without provoking attacks of opportunity. They also can't flank an enemy.
Bolded emphasis mine (and the reason that Tiny creatures aren't often used as combat companions.)
That is true, however:
Benefit: You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least one ally who also has this feat is threatening that opponent and the opponent is at least two size categories larger than the larger of you or your ally, regardless of your actual positioning.
Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.
Emphasis on bolded parts. That's why I thought it would work.
That said, you could still do some really neat things with a fox familiar in the realms of stealth, scouting, and sabotage.
It's a great concept in general - I could see it as an excellent NPC where the party keeps encountering a pair of mischievous foxes that they don't take especially seriously but who turns out to be a powerful spellcaster and his/her familiar.
That is true, however:
Emphasis on bolded parts. That's why I thought it would work.Benefit: You are considered to be flanking an opponent if at least one ally who also has this feat is threatening that opponent and the opponent is at least two size categories larger than the larger of you or your ally, regardless of your actual positioning.
Normal: You must be positioned opposite an ally to flank an opponent.
But Tiny creatures don't threaten :/
That's what I wanted, but sense the only way I can find to get feats on a familiar limits the feats I get as the actual caster. I am having trouble getting the idea off the ground. It's also the reason why I wanted an animal companion version.
May be a bit off-type, but have you given any thought/consideration to the Mauler familiar archetype?
Fits the "SURPRISE!" theme a little bit, and makes the fox familiar a bit more combat viable?
The Battle Form grants a +2 STR bonus stacking with the +8 STR increase from going from Tiny to Medium on top of the Fox familiar's STR increasing from a shockingly good 9 (for a Tiny creature) to 10, meaning that in battle form the fox familiar would have a 20 Strength (at level 3 and increasing from there.)
A few shared spells later and that'd be quite the combat pet.
May be a bit off-type, but have you given any thought/consideration to theMauler familiar archetype?Fits the "SURPRISE!" theme a little bit, and makes the fox familiar a bit more combat viable?
The Battle Form grants a +2 STR bonus stacking with the +8 STR increase from going from Tiny to Medium on top of the Fox familiar's STR increasing from a shockingly good 9 (for a Tiny creature) to 10, meaning that in battle form the fox familiar would have a 20 Strength.
I have, infact I probably would use it if I could figure out how to get that one feat on the familiar. Also I thought of using the rogue archetype Carnivalist to allow for me and the fox sneak attacking once we hit lvl 2. Also we can almost always sneak attack if we fight how I want to, which means constantly flanking the opponent.
Just found this archetype, it fits perfectly (though fighter annoyingly, so no sneak attack).
Oh, well that's easy. Just retrain the base Skill Focus feat it gets to Overwhelm.
Edit: That's just its base 1st HD feat, it can be or be retrained into any feat it can qualify for. It never gets more than one, but no reason to be stuck with Skill Focus.
Feats: You can easily exchange a pre-built familiar's starting feats with different feats that better match your concept, such as the familiar feats. There are also new feats relating to familiars, allowing a great deal of customization and sometimes adding unusual mystical qualities and abilities.
Oh, well that's easy. Just retrain the base Skill Focus feat it gets to Overwhelm.
I wasn't sure if I would be allowed/it would work because thematic reasons, but now that I think about it I am GM, thank you for the idea!
I like the Carnivalist now that you pointed it out (and you can even see that specifically calls out that your familiar needs to be Small or larger to flank and sneak.)
A kitsune rogue would seem to fit that trickster concept exceedingly well.
I like the Carnivalist now that you pointed it out (and you can even see that specifically calls out that your familiar needs to be Small or larger to flank and sneak.)
A kitsune rogue would seem to fit that trickster concept exceedingly well.
I don't see the part about your familiar having to be at least small size to sneak attack. I see the part about flanking but I thought because of the feat it would be an exception to the rule. Anyway also thought of another question with the use of martial characters, could the familiar or me as af ox activate a wand. Then use wands with minor image to have someone surrounded in foxes that they don't know which two are real. Anyway yeah I thought overwhelm feat would allow an exception to the small our larger to flank rule.
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A dip into swashbuckler (mouser) would let you and your foxy ally flank with something despite your tiny sizes.
While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser, and all of the mouser's allies that are adjacent to both the foe and the mouser are considered to be flanking the foe
I have gotten ab absurd number of sneak attacks this way, and for the first time in a LONG PFS career see full attack sneak attacks.
A dip into swashbuckler (mouser) would let you and your foxy ally flank with something despite your tiny sizes.
While the mouser is within her foe's space, the foe takes a –4 penalty on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks not made against the mouser, and all of the mouser's allies that are adjacent to both the foe and the mouser are considered to be flanking the foe
I have gotten ab absurd number of sneak attacks this way, and for the first time in a LONG PFS career see full attack sneak attacks.
Only 2 questions
1) HOW DID I NOT FIND OUT ABOUT THIS SOONER
and now that the yelling is done:
2) Would my fox familiar being in the same space count as being adjacent?
I don't see the part about your familiar having to be at least small size to sneak attack. I see the part about flanking but I thought because of the feat it would be an exception to the rule. Anyway also thought of another question with the use of martial characters, could the familiar or me as af ox activate a wand. Then use wands with minor image to have someone surrounded in foxes that they don't know which two are real. Anyway yeah I thought overwhelm feat would allow an exception to the small our larger to flank rule.I like the Carnivalist now that you pointed it out (and you can even see that specifically calls out that your familiar needs to be Small or larger to flank and sneak.)
A kitsune rogue would seem to fit that trickster concept exceedingly well.
The wand bit is tricky, unfortunately.
Lots of familiars are able to use wands, but they need to be able to hold it and speak, so mostly this is the realm of improved familiars (though ravens - and monkeys, once they gain Speak with Master iirc - are baseline familiars that can use wands.)
Seems like this would have to be something you'd do once you entered "battle mode".
So if I have this right, I can replace the fox's skill focus feat with overwhelm, take the same feat at lvl 1, then at lvl 4 I take the fox form feat for kitsune. Then from then on I can just go around as 2 foxes jump into an enemies square and sneak attack with bites all day long. This is assuming I am a Carnivalist Rogue, with a dip in mouser at lvl 4.
2) Would my fox familiar being in the same space count as being adjacent?
I believe so. If you are your own ally you should be adjacent to your square
Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.
So a square within 0 feet of you should be as well.
I know it's been awhile, but have you checked out the Eldritch Guardian fighter archetype?
I know it's been awhile, but have you checked out the Eldritch Guardian fighter archetype?
Yes, now if I could just find a way to get a fighter sneak attacks and possibly the familiar to.
Multiclass?