A few questions came up this last gaming session that we resolved for the time being, but I'm curious what (if any) official rules there are for this:
1) When using TK Maneuvers for grapple, can you choose to deal damage (as per the grapple rules)? If so, how much damage do you do? One of my friends suggested the same damage as my kinetic blast, but I'm curious if that's the case.
2) When someone tries to break from a grapple, they typically roll their CMB vs. the controller's CMD. What is your CMD when using TK Grapple? Again, one of my group suggested that I replace my STR for my CON to determine CMD (10 + Caster Level + CON + DEX).
3) Normally, when you grapple, the first thing you do after successfully starting the grapple is "If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails)." Is that true when you start a grapple at 800'? My GM thought it was funny so he said my target flew to the space next to me, but I wanna know what would happen.
I realize that none of these rules are Kineticist only, a wizard casting TK would have the same issues... but since that's what I'm playing, that's where my mind is at.
Thanks!
1) I'd say no because you aren't actually physically holding the target but instead using a telekinetic force to contain him. The target just gains the "grappled" condition.
2) I would think it would work like that
3) This isn't just a normal grapple but an invisible telekinetic force grabbing him so I'd say no. It doesn't make any sense for it to do so. The specific overrides the general and in this case the target would not "fly towards you" because it isn't you physically grappling them.
Element aether; Type utility (Sp); Level 4; Burn 0
Saving Throw none; SR yes
You can perform combat maneuvers as telekinesis, but you use your Constitution modifier to determine your Combat Maneuver Bonus rather than your Intelligence or Charisma modifier. If you possess the telekinetic finesse wild talent, add dirty trick and steal combat maneuvers to the list of combat maneuvers you can perform; when performing these maneuvers, determine your Combat Maneuver Bonus using your Dexterity modifier instead of your Constitution modifier.
Combat Maneuver: Alternatively, once per round, you can use telekinesis to perform a bull rush, disarm, grapple (including pin), or trip. Resolve these attempts as normal, except that they don't provoke attacks of opportunity, you use your caster level in place of your Combat Maneuver Bonus, and you add your Intelligence modifier (if a wizard) or Charisma modifier (if a sorcerer) in place of your Strength or Dexterity modifier. No save is allowed against these attempts, but spell resistance applies normally. This version of the spell can last 1 round per caster level, but it ends if you cease concentration.
1) I believe you can grapple for damage, because Telekinetic Maneuvers works as the Telekinesis spell, and the Telekinesis spell states that the attempts resolve as normal which I infer to mean that all aspects of the said maneuver are resolved as normal. As for damage, I am less sure, but I would hazard that it would be equal to your normal unarmed damage, as nothing in the Talent or the spell imply differently.
2) That seems reasonable.
3) The square where he is grappled is where he would remain, as the effect is centered on the opponent, not your square.
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Here is my question along the same lines...
Does one need a grapple when we get the Telekinenic Haul, or can we simply pick the creature up? (100 lbs per level, 1000 if you spend burn)
Ofcourse, there is Foe Throw also, which is nice. (6th level vs 13th level sorcerer using a spell....)
Reading again, it seems that the power is limited to "Objects."
Still a ponderance to consider...
TK Haul is for unattended objects only.
Okay. Since I didn't do damage anyway during the grapple (my first opponent's companions fireballed us, someone else hit my second victim before I could do anything else) we haven't settled that one yet at my table.
I agree that it doesn't say anything in the talent or in the spell to say otherwise, it's just weird that I deal unarmed damage, but I'm okay with that (to be honest, I haven't DIRECTLY caused damage in any of the combats yet, and I have had so much fun with that I wanna see how long it can last :D )
We'll probably keep going with what I said in #2 (10 + CL + CON + DEX) until someone says otherwise.
Deadbeat Doom & Texas Snyper, I understand your reasoning for #3. My GM went with it because it was funny and we had fun, but I'll point that out to him next time so going forward we'll likely do it that way.
Thanks!