Godless Paladin


Rules Questions


Is a Pure Legion Enforcer Paladin a valid combination? For this to work, the character must be lawful (part of being a paladin), have 5 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and 4 in Sense Motive (not hard to do), not cast divine spells (Tempered Champion, Temple Champion, Warrior of the Holy Light, Stonelord) have the feat Godless Healing (might have difficulties), and not worship a deity.

The not worshipping a deity is what's confusing me. While most of the Paladin's class features are deity-agnostic, and there is no explicit requirement that you must worship a deity (as opposed to the explicit requirement to be LG), Divine Bond and Holy Champion run under the assumption you worship a god:

Divine Bond wrote:
Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin forms a divine bond with her god.
Holy Champion wrote:
At 20th level, a paladin becomes a conduit for the power of her god.
Similarly, the Tempered Champion archetype practically requires you to have a deity:
Tempered Champion wrote:
If a feat requires choosing a weapon or weapon group, the tempered champion must choose her deity's favored weapon, or its group.
The fluff text of Temple Champion indicates that you serve a deity, although there are minimal mechanical implications for not having one, as you may select features based around ethos instead, like a Cleric.
Temple Champion wrote:
A Temple Champion is a powerful warrior dedicated to a good or lawful deity.

Warrior of the Holy Light is entirely deity-neutral. Stonelord trades out Divine Bond and Holy Champion, making it a Paladin archetype that does not reference having a deity at all.

So are Paladin powers always divinely sourced? Is it possible for a Paladin to become a Pure Legion Enforcer? Can a Paladin be godless?


You do not need to worship a deity as a paladin, that is an error in the fluff of the CRB paladin, even James Jacobs has said that while Clerics are meant to need deities in his setting you don't need to worship a deity as a paladin.

Tempered Champion, you'll need to worship a deity to get it's bonuses. Temple Champion, you don't need to worship a deity since it says "At 4th level, a temple champion selects one domain granted by her deity (or a domain suitable for her ethos or goals, subject to GM approval)."
Warrior of Holy Light does not require a deity.
Stonelord does not require a deity.

Quote:
So are Paladin powers always divinely sourced?

Yes. But divine =! deity.

Quote:
Is it possible for a Paladin to become a Pure Legion Enforcer?

Yes.

Quote:
Can a Paladin be godless?

Yes.

Sczarni

Paladins should be able to just say "May the Light protect you."

Shadow Lodge

Interesting question thematically. Alahazra the iconic oracle was driven from home due to her divine powers, despite not actually worshiping a deity. A paladin could easily have similar issues if their powers were recognized as divinely sourced, spells or no spells.

Mechanically it is allowed.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Godless Paladin All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.