More good-aligned resources?

[zauriel56]

So evil has book of the damned 1-3, champions of corruption, faiths of do corruption, and agents of evil. Options for good-aligned,champions of purity and faiths of purity, and chronicles of the righteous.

Neutral books champions of balance and faiths of balance.

Heroes are supposed to be good guys typically, or at least neutral you would think.

In PFS, evil isn't even allowed. So why are non-evil options so limited if you want to make a hero who is about doing good? Am I missing a book I need to pick up or something?

[Berselius]

THANK YOU good sir!

You bring up a MAGNIFICENT POINT! :D

[Otagian]

Definitely check out the new Arcane Anthology. Lots of good aligned spells and a couple archetypes in the Old-Mage Jatembe section.

[The Beardinator]

I try to encourage goodly or at least the nicer side of neutral in my groups. Evil PC's inevitably cause more trouble than they're worth and inevitably leads to players killing other players. IMO the RPG game is about being in a group and playing a Story. When one or more players brings the story to a grinding halt because they want to be "Evil", the fun stops. It peeves me that in supplement books like Chronicles of the Righteous, the Goodly Powers are depicted with a dark tone to them. So, even those who are supposed to be "Good" can't be trusted. Just my take.

[The Beardinator]

I'm really not liking that the entirety of the next AP is basically Evil players killing as many paladins and goodly characters as possible to "preserve" the Evil nation of Cheliax. I see nothing but party infighting and players killing other players as most "Evil" campaigns inevitably devolve to.

[Squiggit]

Party infighting and disruption are just players being jerks, and that's alignment independent.

I've certainly seen as many disruptive LG paladins or XG inquisitors as I have disruptive CE players.

[Captain collateral damage]

Squiggit: Yes, that's very true, but the point is if there are more good an neutral pcs out there, then why so many evil books. It's an excellent point

[Set]

Captain collateral damage wrote:

Squiggit: Yes, that's very true, but the point is if there are more good an neutral pcs out there, then why so many evil books. It's an excellent point

There's *one* AP coming out geared towards an evil party, after what, fourteen or fifteen mostly geared around good parties (with Norgorber, Asmodeus, Urgathoa, Rovagug, etc. adherents being foes in many of these APs). If there's 'too much' of something, it sure isn't evil APs...

Given that something like 90% of the line assumes a good (or at least non-evil) party of adventurers (Skull and Shackles being the only one that I recall specifically discouraging Paladin-types), and the entire organized play / PF Society being explicitly evil-is-verboten, I'm not sure if there's much weight to the complaint about 'so many evil books.'

Now, granted, there are three different Books of the Damned, and only one Chronicle of the Righteous, but that's pretty much the way the game has always been. Devils, demons and daemons (and kytons and divs and demodands and rakshasa and qlippoth) are there to be fought and killed. Angels, archons, azatas and agathions, not so much.

The real imbalance, if there is one, is that there hasn't been much focus at all on the Law and Chaos spectrums. A 'Tome of Order' based on Inevitable, Axiomite, Formian, etc. lawful outsiders or a 'Songs of Chaos' book about Proteans could open up some new angles to explore, other than the eleventy-bleemth new demon or devil type.

[Luthorne]

The Books of the Damned are Campaign Setting books, and thus primarily for DMs, so I think that makes sense. There are so many evil books in that regard because good and neutral PCs often fight evil NPCs. Champions of Balance, Champions of Corruption, Champions of Purity, and the Faiths version all balance out.

Agents of Evil actually isn't really necessarily for evil characters, and even contains a good-aligned spell, as well as the Devil Imposter archetype which is for those who can't actually stand the cruelty of devils but are forced due to their location (usually Cheliax) to pretend they are. It also has story feats and backgrounds that cover difficult things such as falling in love with someone who later turns to evil...which doesn't mean you are. Even the Dead Inside story feat can be completed either by doing something truly evil...or finding true love, instead. And the possibility of having a redemption arc is present as well. So, I hesitate to say that it contains resources only for evil characters, I certainly think neutral characters can benefit, and perhaps even good-aligned ones to an extent.

So, I don't agree that the imbalance is really as big as is being made out.

[SheepishEidolon]

Luthorne wrote:

So, I don't agree that the imbalance is really as big as is being made out.

I'd agree and even say: It's pretty even, when it comes to options for players. A personal quick count says 10 vs. 10:

Player companions with predominantly good options
* Elves of Golarion
* Dwarves of Golarion
* Gnomes of Golarion
* Blood of Angels
* Faiths of Purity
* Champions of Purity
* Dragonslayer's Handbook
* Demon Hunter's Handbook
* Undead Slayer's Handbook
* Giant Hunter's Handbook

Player companions with predominantly evil options
* Orcs of Golarion
* Goblins of Golarion
* Kobolds of Golarion
* Blood of Fiends
* Blood of the Night
* Blood of the Moon
* Faiths of Corruption
* Champions of Corruption
* Agents of Evil
* Pirates of the Inner Sea (?)

Of course the lists are debatable.

[JiCi]

Huh... we have 3 Books of the Damned... why not suggest to have Books of the Sanctified? Angels, Archons, Agathions, Azatas and the newly added Manasaputras can all use more info. Cayden Cailean, Desna, Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Shelyn, Torag and other minor deities could all use extra lore. Aasimars can always use more character options, same goes for clerics, paladins, inquisitors, oracles and warpriests.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

The Beardinator wrote:

I'm really not liking that the entirety of the next AP is basically Evil players killing as many paladins and goodly characters as possible to "preserve" the Evil nation of Cheliax. I see nothing but party infighting and players killing other players as most "Evil" campaigns inevitably devolve to.

Didn't Wrath of the Righteous fill your goody two-shoes needs? You had holy mythic superheroes, what more could you want?

[UnArcaneElection]

Upcoming for you: Heaven Unleashed.

[moon-beast]

Captain collateral damage wrote:

Squiggit: Yes, that's very true, but the point is if there are more good an neutral pcs out there, then why so many evil books. It's an excellent point

Because "being evil" has now become kewl in Pathfinder.

[Gorbacz]

*Fondly recalls the 1991 uproar among D&D grogs that a game about being an amoral vampire monster is actually popular*

[dragonhunterq]

moon-beast wrote:

Captain collateral damage wrote:

Squiggit: Yes, that's very true, but the point is if there are more good an neutral pcs out there, then why so many evil books. It's an excellent point

Because "being evil" has now become kewl in Pathfinder.

Now?

[Fourshadow]

No evil player characters at my family's Pathfinder table--none of my sons have a problem with that either. We see the game as an opportunity to be heroes, hence only good-aligned allowed (the occasional N is accepted).
Haven't had a chance to look at Heaven Unleashed yet, but hope for more good-aligned resources in the future. Champions of Purity is a favorite of ours.

[James Jacobs]

I've taken over an upcoming Player Companion. And have heard this thread's requests.

Make of that what you will.

[Fourshadow]

Was it a hostile take over or was Owen a pushover? He's been doing an admirable job on the PCs, btw. I have loved his work.

[Slithery D]

James Jacobs wrote:

I've taken over an upcoming Player Companion. And have heard this thread's requests.

Make of that what you will.

I think the desire is that you make what we have willed.