Countersong and spells like Suggestion / Geas


Rules Questions


1 person marked this as a favorite.

So, usually I see Countersong used for things like Harpy song or Allip's babble.

However, it appears to me that it should work on language-dependent spells that aren't instantaneous (IE have a duration):

Paizo PRD wrote:
Countersong (Su): At 1st level, a bard learns to counter magic effects that depend on sound (but not spells that have verbal components.) Each round of the countersong he makes a Perform (keyboard, percussion, wind, string, or sing) skill check. Any creature within 30 feet of the bard (including the bard himself) that is affected by a sonic or language-dependent magical attack may use the bard's Perform check result in place of its saving throw if, after the saving throw is rolled, the Perform check result proves to be higher. If a creature within range of the countersong is already under the effect of a non-instantaneous sonic or language-dependent magical attack, it gains another saving throw against the effect each round it hears the countersong, but it must use the bard's Perform skill check result for the save. Countersong does not work on effects that don't allow saves. Countersong relies on audible components.

So, would Countersong be able to allow additional saves on spells like Suggestion and Geas?

Shadow Lodge

I think you're right, though it seems a little unbalanced to me for 1 round of bardic performance to entirely negate a long-duration compulsion like Geas.


It seems a little unbalanced for me for a long-duration compulsion like Geas to exist.

However to address OP's question, it's worth mentioning that countersong only works on spells that grant a saving throw. Lesser Geas allows a save, but Geas does not.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber
Yiroep wrote:
So, would Countersong be able to allow additional saves on spells like Suggestion and Geas?

RAW, for spells like Suggestion that allow a saving throw, yes.

Shadow Lodge

Lord Wimpy wrote:

It seems a little unbalanced for me for a long-duration compulsion like Geas to exist.

However to address OP's question, it's worth mentioning that countersong only works on spells that grant a saving throw. Lesser Geas allows a save, but Geas does not.

Missed the disappearing save, you are correct.

I like Geas for story reasons. It's a softer touch than Dominate Person.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Countersong and spells like Suggestion / Geas All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.