bows/crossbows that teleport the ammo from quivers right to the bowstring have been around forever.
Crossbows of speed that cocked themselves were one of the primary crossbows from first edition.
Neither is unbalanced. +1 for each separate ability on a crossbow is probably fine.
==Aelryinth
Another option is to use the Magic Item Creation Rules to permanently enchant the ammo box of a Repeating Crossbow Crossbow Crossbow with Abundant Ammunition for 4,000g or a +1.
Pretty sure that everful quivers have their own set of rules somewhere, and 4k is on the low side. After all, it should be worth a LOT more then a quiver that holds just 60 arrows, right?
==Aelryinth
Unfortunately there is no equivalent to the Bottomless Quiver by Paizo, but the one in the link is only 2000gp and does basically the same thing.
Edit: I didn't realize at first that dandwiki.com is only for homebrew stuff. I don't have the original 3.5 books so I don't know how similar that item is to the official version.
They actually had Everfull Quivers as one of the featured magic items for a FR book on the forums (mainly so they could price the quiver that came with DRizzt's magic bow in the books).
Pretty sure it was more then 4k.
Ah, here we are: Quiver of anariel.
Quiver_of_Anariel Google it and you'll see a basic quiver is 28,000 gp. Which, for unlimited ammunition, isn't that bad a deal, and fairly cheap to upgrade to magical ammunition.
==Aelryinth
Jeez, I hope that system has a very different economy, because 28k is way over priced for just mundane arrows. It would be so much cheaper to get an Efficent Quiver and a lvl 1 bag of holding and just fill both to the brim with arrows. Arrows that would also have the advantage of staying after shot.
Nah, arrows are mostly assumed destroyed after shooting unless they have that Enduring or whatever enhancement on them.
And unlimited arrows over the lifetime of an archer is a LOT of arrows, given how many they can shoot. I mean, seriously, you can go through 20+ arrows in one combat with ease, 60 of them in a quiver is nothing.
Even Abundant Ammunition only lasts for 1 min/level, meaning basically for one fight. There's a big difference between having to activate the quiver to start replacing arrows at the start of the fight, and having unlimited arrows available literally all the time, forever.
Note an Efficient quiver is 2k, and MUCH less useful then infinite ammunition.
==Aelryinth
Nah, arrows are mostly assumed destroyed after shooting unless they have that Enduring or whatever enhancement on them.
And unlimited arrows over the lifetime of an archer is a LOT of arrows, given how many they can shoot. I mean, seriously, you can go through 20+ arrows in one combat with ease, 60 of them in a quiver is nothing.
Even Abundant Ammunition only lasts for 1 min/level, meaning basically for one fight. There's a big difference between having to activate the quiver to start replacing arrows at the start of the fight, and having unlimited arrows available literally all the time, forever.
Note an Efficient quiver is 2k, and MUCH less useful then infinite ammunition.
==Aelryinth
Ahem. You can even make special material versions. 61gp for an adamantine arrow that will last for ages. There's no need for what is probably an overpriced enhancement (which I can't seem to find a source for).
Setting that aside, how many arrows does an archer blow through? Lets assume an average of 10 fights per level, 3 rounds of firing per fight, and 5 shots per round. That is 150 arrows per level. An archer is only going to shoot something along the lines of 3000 rounds in their entire career. That costs 150gp. This isn't a hard number, but seriously, the cost is trivial even if you fire 50 shots a combat. An Efficient Quiver will easily provide the capacity for a fight, and a Bag of Holding I can hold 1500 arrows (half of an archer's career) and the containers necessary to stop them puncturing the bag. All up, you are looking at around 4300gp in items, and under 200gp of expendables. The bag of holding probably isn't even necessary given the ubiquity of handy haversacks, and if you do bring the bag along you can jettison ammunition and use it for other things in a pinch. Oh, and if you want to use magical arrows, alchemical ammunition or unusual materials, then you just toss them in the bag/quiver. No problems. All of these benefits that an infinite shot quiver doesn't have. The quiver needs to be substantially less than the above to be worthwhile. 2000gp is pretty much spot on.
Oh, and for what it's worth Abundant Ammunition is a pretty terrible spell. It was only really decent when you could use it with horrifically expensive alchemical ammunition or special materials (and then it did have a fair bit of value), but now that they errata'd that away the spell is of little use unless arrows are nigh-impossible to come by.
So, you've spent money on ammo, you've spent money on something to hold it in, you've got to dig for the ammo in the middle of a fight, AND you can still run out of it in midfight...vs not having to worry about any of that stuff?
I can see 28k gp being a little high. But 4k is definitely on the low side, given the convenience and unlimited capacity of the item. I mean, you're talking about fights...what about theoretical practice shots? Shoot a hundred rounds a day, no need to retrieve them, they just vanish. Pass it to the guy next to you, no attunement time needed, works for bows and crossbows, let him take a hundred shots.
If we're just talking x arrows/combat, yeah, doesn't look good. But we're talking unlimited amounts of arrows perfectly sized to the one using them, that can be swapped back and forth without a problem, and you don't have to worry about retrieval or cleaning them up, weight, storage, running out...
That's worth a lot more then 4k.
==Aelryinth
I completely forgot that Paizo made 2 weapon enhancements that already do what is wanted: +1 for Conserving and +2 for Endless Ammunition.
At +2, the minimum value of Endless Ammunition is 16k. It's not as good as the quiver overall, but does illustrate the value of never having to worry about ammo for any reason.
==Aelryinth
What does an ioun stone that grants proficiency have to do with anything?
True Strike is only a first level spell, but getting infinite use of it is worth a million xp.
CLW is a first level spell, but gaining infinite use of it is worth more then 90k if you look at a Ring of Regeneration.
I.e. infinite ammunition is worth more then 4k. And, as I noted, the price for Anariels' quivers is on google.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Quiver_of_Anariel
Perhaps overpriced sum, but it means INFINITE AMMO, and it can be passed around. If you think that's priced at 'just being a 1st level spell', you're dreaming.
Consider a shooting range with one of these quivers: Archers practice 100-200 arrows, and then pass tot he next archer/xbowman in line. No need to invest in the proper ammunition size/length...the ammunition is perfect. No need to clean up after yourself, the bolts all vanish shortly after hitting or missing.
Every day, thousands and thousands of arrows and bolts being created.
Your castle is under siege. The quiver gets passed around the best archers, who simply full attack until they can't draw back their hands. The arrows kill, wound or miss, but never run out, and the enemy can't grab them to shoot them back. Your armory's REAL arrows last tons longer because your best archers never actually run out of normal ammunition.
An everful quiver is worth a TON. And if you say "Well, it's only a first level spell", I say, then cast your first level spell that's only good for you for a short time.
Like the other two items, the implication of the quiver can be massive. In twenty rounds of combat, an archer can go through a hundred arrows easily at higher levels. If we start talking larger durations, it starts getting worse and worse.
==Aelryinth
yEAH, That's like saying a true strike sword is worthless because nobody is proficient in the sword.
Or a CLW at will Ring is useless because you only have a max of 4 encounters a day, and so it'll only heal a few hundred hit points regardless.
No, that logic isn't flying at all.
==Aelryinth
Not all 1st level spells are equal when made into permanent effects.
That's why there's a huge price difference between Bracers of Armor +4 (Permanent Mage Armor) and an Eastern Star (permanent Comprehend Languages).
Have you even read through Magic Item Creation?
If you discover a loophole that allows an item to have an ability for a much lower price than is given for a comparable item, the GM should require using the price of the item, as that is the standard cost for such an effect.
Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values.
Spell Effect: Use-activated or continuous. Base Price: Spell level x caster level x 2,000 gp
And keep in mind:
Because Pathfinder is not a global economy for muggles simulator. Items are priced based on how useful they are to adventurers.
Items are based on how useful they are, period. A Wardstone that encapsulated an entire city or fortress in a no-dimensional hijinks zone is of little to no value to adventurers, but nigh on priceless to the city.
The relic of St. Chamwoth is a religious artifact of great holiness and significance to a major Church, one of the last remnants of one of the great pontiffs of the faith. It has no use to PC's except as a holy item, possibly useful in antipathy against Called fiends, or the like. The Church will pay a GREAT deal of money for its safe return, however.
i.e., Bad logic is bad logic. Economic power is DEFINITELY something that should be figured on when evaluating the price of a magic item.
I'm reminded of the Knights of the Dinner Table, when they found the Thimble whose only power was to repair cloth and rope. A relic, not even priced.
To a town with a fishing fleet, the ability to repair nets and sails rapidly and perfectly was worth so much money, Bob ended up owning most of the fleet and town! Not bad for just a Mending effect!
==Aelryinth