Magical Knack at Level 2

[Benboz]

I selected the Magical Knack trait, and my character is currently level 2. The way the trait is worded, it sounds to me like it doesn't provide any benefit until I reach character level 3. On the other hand, it could be interpreted as providing +1 in the CL for my chosen class, until I reach character level 3 (at which point it will be +2, and stay that way throughout the life of the character). Which one should I assume is correct?

[Imbicatus]

Magical Knack does nothing at all until you multiclass, or until you are level 4 as a Ranger or Paladin.

It give you +2 to caster level for a class, with the limitation that it cannot raise your caster level over your character level.

If you are Wizard 1 / Fighter 1 with magical knack(wizard), your caster level would be two for wizards spells.

If you are Wizard 2 with magical knack(wizard), your caster level would be two for wizards spells.

[Benboz]

Uh oh, I'm confused. I'm with you about the trait doing nothing for me at character level 2, but now I'm worried I'm misunderstanding what it will do at character level 3. I'll explain what I was planning. Right now I have a level in Bard and a level in Paladin. My chosen class for Magical Knack is Bard. The idea was to continue leveling in Paladin and stay level 1 in Bard. Then I could cast level 0 and level 1 Bard spells at CL 3. Also, I could use spell level 2 Bard scrolls with an easier level check. Does this work?

[Imbicatus]

Ok. So you are Bard 1 / Paladin 1 now with magical knack bard. Right now, your caster level for bard spells is level 2. When you get to third level an take another paladin level, it will raise to CL 3 and stay there forever if you never take any more bard levels.

Note that this only increases CL. You do not gain any more spells per day or spells known.

Using the trait in this way is generally a waste, you would get more use out of it it your primary class was the caster, and you just dipped out for a level or two.

[Benboz]

Great thanks for clarifying. That's a relief! However, I don't understand why it's a waste to use the trait on my dip, instead of the primary class. The reason I'm planning it that way is low level Bard spells are very versatile, and low level scrolls are cheap. So the CL increase would make the dip more useful. Does this idea hold water?

[CampinCarl9127]

Imbicatus is correct in how the rules work.

However I disagree with him in the usefulness of it. Increasing caster level on low-level spells is very handy. I think your build is fine.

[Imbicatus]

The issue is that the difference between a CL1 first level spell and a CL3 first level spell is minimal at higher levels. The only thing it would really make a difference on is Liberating Command, because the bonus to the escape check is +6 instead of +2.

[CampinCarl9127]

And things like Mage armor lasting 3 hours instead of 1 and shield lasting 3 minutes instead of 1 and alarm lasting 6 hours instead of two and...

The list goes on and on. Nothing Earth-shattering by any means, but some nice utility.

[Imbicatus]

Mage Armor isn't a bard spell, and even if it was, those kind of things are better on wands, where you are stuck at CL 1 anyway unless you want to pay for the higher CL.

[CampinCarl9127]

Bah, my bad.

Well I disagree still, but to each their own. The rules question has been answered and we're starting to derail into advice.

[Benboz]

OK, this discussion definitely makes me feel more comfortable that I understand the way the trait works. Thanks again for the input!

[kinevon]

Imbicatus wrote:

Mage Armor isn't a bard spell, and even if it was, those kind of things are better on wands, where you are stuck at CL 1 anyway unless you want to pay for the higher CL.

I dunno. I have a Wizard 6/Arcanist 1 with Magical Knack for the Arcanist, along with Wayang Spell Hunter for Mage Armor. Casting an Extended CL4 Mage Armor from one of my Arc1 slots? Nice.

Why Arcanist?:

Thassilonian Specialist: Evoker for my Wizard, so Arcanist (with School Understanding: Evocation) doesn't take away from his Intense Spells ability, he has a Varisian Tattoo to keep his Evocation spell CL up, and this gives him access back to his forbidden spell list via Arcanist.

So, Extended as a feat, CL3 from Magical Knack, and +1 CL from burning one of his Arcanist Pool points, for an 8 hour Mage Armor. He has as many pool points as he has first level spell castings as an Arcanist, so...

[Imbicatus]

kinevon wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Mage Armor isn't a bard spell, and even if it was, those kind of things are better on wands, where you are stuck at CL 1 anyway unless you want to pay for the higher CL.

I dunno. I have a Wizard 6/Arcanist 1 with Magical Knack for the Arcanist, along with Wayang Spell Hunter for Mage Armor. Casting an Extended CL4 Mage Armor from one of my Arc1 slots? Nice.

** spoiler omitted **

It's not bad, but you delayed access to every wizard spell level in order do do something that could have just used UMD and a wand for. Especially if you to the staff-like wand discovery.

[claudekennilol]

Imbicatus wrote:

kinevon wrote:

Imbicatus wrote:

Mage Armor isn't a bard spell, and even if it was, those kind of things are better on wands, where you are stuck at CL 1 anyway unless you want to pay for the higher CL.

I dunno. I have a Wizard 6/Arcanist 1 with Magical Knack for the Arcanist, along with Wayang Spell Hunter for Mage Armor. Casting an Extended CL4 Mage Armor from one of my Arc1 slots? Nice.

** spoiler omitted **

It's not bad, but you delayed access to every wizard spell level in order do do something that could have just used UMD and a wand for. Especially if you to the staff-like wand discovery.

He didn't delay it any more than if he had just stayed an arcanist. And he doubled his first level spell pool.

[CampinCarl9127]

The rules question has been answered. Let's not keep a thread alive to have discussion and advice about builds.