Greetings,
Is it possible to teleport (greater) from ,say, an astral plane onto a demiplane that is also in the astral plane, provided you have some information on how it looks or appears. Nothing in demiplanes really contradicts this.
However I feel it cheapens the demiplane greatly, meaning anyone who would spend some time casting divination and legendary lore can get access to any demiplane without needing a planar forked metal rod attuned to the demiplane.
What would you say? An official/semi official ruling would be nice...
Interplanar travel is not possible.
No, you cannot teleport to a demiplane from another plane of existence.
I personally understand this. But where in the rules does it state that demiplanes are not a part of an actual plane, but their own planes. In spells own description it is said they are within those planes they originate from, so one may think they are still on the plane.
Extra question. Interplanetary teleportation, I understand why one would need that spell, but by description of greater teleportation, doesn't it mean you can just use that instead?
I personally understand this. But where in the rules does it state that demiplanes are not a part of an actual plane, but their own planes. In spells own description it is said they are within those planes they originate from, so one may think they are still on the plane.
In the Game Mastery Guide it states that demiplanes are a type of plane, which means it's a separate plane. Also, it never says the planes are within the planes you cast it on, merely that you must cast the spell on one of those planes, which is because demiplane only form on the astral and ethereal planes. But regardless, the create demiplane spell says "Creatures can only enter the plane by the use of planar travel magic such as astral projection, etherealness, or plane shift." So you specifically cannot travel to it without planar travel magic.
Extra question. Interplanetary teleportation, I understand why one would need that spell, but by description of greater teleportation, doesn't it mean you can just use that instead?
Because with Greater Teleport you need "a reliable description of the place to which you are teleporting". You don't with Interplanetary Teleport.
Creatures can only enter the plane by the use of planar travel magic such as astral projection, etherealness, or plane shift.
The etherealness spell refers to enetering one specific plane, the Etherial.
whether it is actually just part of the astral plane
The ambiguous part of it is dispelled via Milo v3's mentioned Game Mastery guide and the entry in the guide to multiverse. Not to mention the same game mastery guide lists demiplanes as a separate kind of plane.
Also This.
With all the fluff and side notes it's safe to say demiplanes, even those created by spells are planes, just small. Special rules trump general.
Which is why it doesn't make any sense to list as a way of accessing demiplanes
I would believe, this is for a special case when a demiplane overlaps with a material plane, if it has same features as the ethereal plane, which can be easily arranged for a demiplane cut from the same cloth.
And still, it's a valid way of planar travel, since it is planar travel, entering a plane (be it demi or not) from a material plane. This still does not permit teleportation into planes, as teleportation spells do not allow travel between planes.
And what provided fluff entries state, plane and obvious, in multiple paragraphs, is that Demiplanes are separate planes, and that they are separate extra dimensions, ergo not astral or etherial planes, other planes, which only connect to astral or ethereal planes (simply because it's the easiest place to make them). Same as material plane is connected to all elemental planes. The "demi" symbolizes it's size, not subjugation to other planes or being part of them. Cut from same cloth, but a different set of clothes.
I think this is part 3.0/3.5 carry over (where I remember Genesis create planes had a permanent portal to the Astral), part allowance for special DM-designed planes that break the Create Demiplane standard (like with time traits that multiply more than 2x), and part generally poor planar rules from early Pathfinder.
Except you seem to have just made all that up.
No, by spell discription, whit fluff in mind, and it's purpously left vague, you cut a part of an etherial plane and make it a separate demiplane. If it occupies same space as material plane it can be a demiplane.
If so, then the text just directly contradicts the create demiplane spell text.
Wouldn't be the first time.
specific > general
I'd agree but in this case both GM guide and Planar adventures are newer and more detailed on the specifics on what planes are. They are not just 3 spells in the index of spells, but whole paragraphs and books on planes. They are the specific, at least fluff and flavor wise. And for spells like demiplane, where 90% of the spell is flavor, this makes them the specific case. This is how lows work IRL, specific+newer > older and general.
I can also argue that they cover the TRUE cosmology of pathfinder setting, core rule book is a general set of rules, not necessarily tied to a setting, while the GM guide and Multiverse guide are a more specific case for a specific setting, dealing with Patfinder specific themes.
You're thinking too 3-dimensionally. It's a lot more complicated than those planar diagrams make it look. You can't teleport into a demiplane for the same reason you can't teleport from the Boneyard to Axis. Sure, they're right "next to" each other, but they are still different planes and teleport won't get you across that border.
You cannot teleport between planes (including demiplanes). Even if you're literally standing adjacent to a gate between the two, you can't teleport between them. There is another spell for that: plane shift.
I would have said no way before reading this thread, but I do think the ethereal argument is a good one, and something that needs to be explained.
If ethereal jaunt and similar spells can take you to an ethereal based demi-plane, then it certainly seems that although those demiplanes are their own boundary of a sort, they are actually part of the ethereal plane itself rather than a separate plane.
If that is true, then there is no reason to think that Astral based demiplanes are any different.
I'm not 100% convinced, but I do think that without a better explanation of why ethereal would facilitate demi-plane transport than we have seen so far, it is a valid question.
Ethereal jaunt is not teleport. They are entirely different spells with entirely different effects. I'm answering the OP, not whatever discussion that has occurred afterwards.