Alchemist Bomb Combinations

[RevenantBacon]

Hi there, first time on the board, so be gentle ;D

So my question is about the combination of a couple of alchemist discoveries, namely, the Goblin-exclusive Rocket Bomb discovery, and the "Smoke Bomb" series of discoveries (Smoke Bomb, Stinking Bomb, Poison Bomb, and Incindiary Bomb) and whether or not they can combine together, and what their effect is if they do.

A little background into my campaign, we are running a kingdom-building campaign as per the Ultimate Campaign rules. And since we are building a kingdom, we will likely be fighting another kingdom, which means battles of armies.

Specifically, the description of Smoke Bomb is; Smoke bomb*: When the alchemist creates a bomb, he can choose to have it create a cloud of thick smoke when it detonates. The cloud functions as fog cloud, filling an area equal to twice the bomb's splash radius for 1 round per level.

A couple of things to note are
1) that it says "double the bombs splash radius, which for a normal bomb is 5 feet on each side(a 3x3 square), which would double to 10 feet on each side (a 5x5 square) and
2) the asterisk is to note that smoke bomb can't be combined with other bomb discoveries such as frost bomb, or poison bomb, which change the bombs specific type.

And the text for Rocket Bomb; Rocket Bomb (Su): Alchemists with this discovery can prepare special rockets to deliver their bombs. Rocket bombs travel farther and explode bigger than normal bombs, but cannot target individual creatures. Rocket bombs explode in a 20-foot radius, and all creatures in that area take the alchemist's normal splash damage. The range increment on a rocket bomb is 50 feet. Rocket bombs cannot be used with the precise bomb or fast bomb discoveries. An alchemist must be at least 6th level before selecting this discovery.

And the relevant features of the Rocket Bomb are
1) Increased range (50 foot increments, from 20)
2) Increased splash radius (20 foot base, from 5)
3) specifically states which discoveries cannot be used with it (Precise Bomb, and Fast Bomb)

Therefore, my questions are as follows
1) Can I combine Rocket Bombs with the Smoke Bomb family of bombs?
2) If they do combine, does the smoke radius also increase, as per the specific text of the two abilities? (as in, if the smoke fills double the radius, and the radius is 20 feet, will the smoke now fill a 40 foot radius/80 foot diameter)?

Regardless of whether a DM would house rule this out or not, according to the base game mechanics, would this be allowed?

I want my alchemist to be able to lob Poison Bombs (which create smoke as per Cloudkill, btw) from 400 feet away (50 foot range increments on rocket bomb, plus 20 from a special single-use bomb-launcher weapon designed by goblins, plus 10 from bombers eye extract) to cover most of an opposing unit it smoky vaporous death.

[logan grayble]

The rules specifically state you cannot mix discoveries that affect your bomb. That is unless you take the Saboteur archetype specifically for gnomes, and then take the Complex Bombs discovery. But even then it only lets you use two discoveries that modify what type of damage it does, so like the Shock and Frost discoveries.

[RevenantBacon]

so what you're saying is, rocket bomb cannot be combined with ANY discovery, as in, rocket bomb can only be used for basic bombs to deal fire damage, and can't be used for frost bombs, or acid bombs ect.

[logan grayble]

RevenantBacon wrote:

so what you're saying is, rocket bomb cannot be combined with ANY discovery, as in, rocket bomb can only be used for basic bombs to deal fire damage, and can't be used for frost bombs, or acid bombs ect.

Unfortunately, yes. Unless your DM lets you heavily houserule it. But I'm assuming you're already using a houserule to get Rocket Bomb, although I guess you COULD be playing as a Goblin.

[RevenantBacon]

Yes, I'm a goblin, why would you assume otherwise? Also, I was thinking, since Rocket bomb specifically listed what discoveries it could not be used with, that it WAS in fact use-able with other bomb modifying discoveries, and that there are other bomb-modifying discoveries that CAN be combined with frost bomb, or smoke bomb or other bomb modifiers.

[logan grayble]

RevenantBacon wrote:

Yes, I'm a goblin, why would you assume otherwise? Also, I was thinking, since Rocket bomb specifically listed what discoveries it could not be used with, that it WAS in fact use-able with other bomb modifying discoveries, and that there are other bomb-modifying discoveries that CAN be combined with frost bomb, or smoke bomb or other bomb modifiers.

I guess I just forget how popular goblins are. But Precise Bombs and Fast Bombs don't "change" your bomb. I'm assuming the restriction with Precise Bombs and Rocket Bomb is more to show your bomb is unstable and imprecise.

[Tvarog]

I'm pretty sure that Rocket Bomb in fact CAN be used with Smoke Bomb. Looking at the discovery listing here, it clearly states that

PFSRD wrote:

Discoveries marked with an asterisk (*) do not stack—only one such discovery may be applied to a single bomb.

Smoke Bomb and its kin are marked with asterisks, but Rocket Bomb is not. Unless your game is houseruled, you should absolutely be able to combine them.

[Phformian]

I think Rocket Bomb would work with Smoke Bomb. Rocket Bomb isn't marked with an asterisk, so it should be fine to combine with other discoveries (except the ones that it specifically calls out, such as Fast Bombs).

Looking at Smoke Bomb, it says it fills an area double the bomb's splash radius. Rocket bomb says the bomb's splash radius is increased to 20', so the fog cloud (or cloudkill, for Poison Bomb, etc) should have a radius of 40', I believe.

That's how I interpret the rules, anyways. I could be wrong; I'm not nearly as experienced as most people around here.

[logan grayble]

Tvarog wrote:

I'm pretty sure that Rocket Bomb in fact CAN be used with Smoke Bomb. Looking at the discovery listing here, it clearly states that

PFSRD wrote:

Discoveries marked with an asterisk (*) do not stack—only one such discovery may be applied to a single bomb.

Smoke Bomb and its kin are marked with asterisks, but Rocket Bomb is not. Unless your game is houseruled, you should absolutely be able to combine them.

You're totally right. I must have just misremembered the Rocket Bomb discovery

[RevenantBacon]

SO what I hear people saying is: "Yes, nailing opposing armies from 400 feet away with clouds of instant death IS a thing"

:D

Side note, reading an FAQ article (located here: http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fn#v5748eaic9nvc ) has also told me that smoke bombs, in fact, also deal bomb damage.

Gonna bookmark this page to show my DM. And then he'll probably get me eaten by a dragon D=