RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
If you have an ability that lets you use a particular skill in place of another skill, and you have another ability that grants you a bonus on the second skill, does it apply?
My current build that prompted the question is the Asmodean Advocate cleric archetype from Dirty Tactics Toolbox.
At 1st level, an Asmodean advocate learns to choose her words so carefully that even when she says something designed to deceive listeners, the words are phrased to be technically true. She can use her Profession (barrister) skill for Bluff and Diplomacy checks.
Part of the archetype also grants a familiar.
Master gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checks
In a similar vein, could I take the Deceitful feat and gain a bonus on my Bluff checks?
You get a +2 bonus on all Bluff and Disguise skill checks.
I know that this archetype is pretty niche, but I imagine that the same sort of thing would apply to other skill-substitution abilities, such as the Bard's Versatile Performance.
Thanks in advance for your replies!
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If you have an ability that lets you use a particular skill in place of another skill, and you have another ability that grants you a bonus on the second skill, does it apply?
My current build that prompted the question is the Asmodean Advocate cleric archetype from Dirty Tactics Toolbox.
At 1st level, an Asmodean advocate learns to choose her words so carefully that even when she says something designed to deceive listeners, the words are phrased to be technically true. She can use her Profession (barrister) skill for Bluff and Diplomacy checks.Part of the archetype also grants a familiar.
Master gains a +3 bonus on Bluff checksIn a similar vein, could I take the Deceitful feat and gain a bonus on my Bluff checks?
You get a +2 bonus on all Bluff and Disguise skill checks.I know that this archetype is pretty niche, but I imagine that the same sort of thing would apply to other skill-substitution abilities, such as the Bard's Versatile Performance.
Thanks in advance for your replies!
I am sorry to say I do not believe it would. Because the bonus goes to a particular skill and not the substitute skill. Basically here is how I think of it. If you had some sort of sill that let you substitute for Disable Device you would not get the bonus from your Thieves' Tools since you would not be using them. Yeah that is an awkward example but it is the best way I can explain my thinking on that. But who knows I might be completely wrong. Hopefully we can get another person in here that is 100% sure on this.
Nope.
If you had something that added to Prof. Barrister it would apply. You're no longer using Bluff, so anything that enhances Bluff (the skill) rather than your Bluff replacement doesn't work.
This FAQ covers a similar situation.
"Alternate Ability Score-Based Checks: If I change the key ability score of a skill (or other check), for example, if I change Knowledge from Intelligence to Charisma, is it no-longer an Intelligence-based check? Is it now a Charisma-based check?
Generally yes—at the time of rolling a check, if you substitute the ability score, the check is now based on the new ability score. In the example, at the time of rolling, Knowledge would now be a Charisma-based skill and not an Intelligence-based skill for you, which would affect things like feats, spells, or items that grant bonuses on checks based on their key ability score (like circlet of persuasion). However, if you are adding a second ability modifier to a check, this is not the case. For instance, when adding both Wisdom and Dexterity on initiative checks, initiative is still a Dexterity check, not a Wisdom check. Also, this changes the check only at the time of rolling, so this does not change static class features or options made during character building such as your class’s class skills. Classes that receive “all Intelligence-based skills” as class skills, for instance, are the victim of sloppy writing, and furthermore sometimes effects might muddy the water by only changing the ability dependency sometimes and not others, which is why you check the new dependency only for a specific given roll."
Thread Necromancy!
I was just wondering if there was an official ruling on this subject.
For example, if a Bard with Versatile Performance (Dance) is attempting to jump, do they get a benefit from using a pole?
Pole: If you use a pole as part of a running jump, you gain a +2 circumstance bonus on your Acrobatics check (but must let go of the pole in the process).
What if they have a faster than 30' movement?
Faster Base Movement: Creatures with a base land speed above 30 feet receive a +4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed above 30 feet. Creatures with a base land speed below 30 feet receive a –4 racial bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump for every 10 feet of their speed below 30 feet. No jump can allow you to exceed your maximum movement for the round.
In a weird case (of course the one that I'm coming up against currently), imagine a 12th level Air Kineticist, 6th tier mythic (Dual Path Trickster/Champion) with the following:
Air's Leap (+12 to jump)Kinetic Leap (+10 to jump, +20 if you have 10 ranks in Acrobatics)
Wings of Air (Fly speed of 60', +6 to Fly)
Skilled Kineticist (+6 to Fly)
This Just Might Work (use Fly at -5 for Acrobatics)
Seven-League Leap (+tier to Acrobatics checks to jump)
Mythic Paragon (+2 to tier)
12 ranks in Acrobatics and Fly
assume a 22 dex (+6)
Acrobatics and Fly skill mods (without other mods) 12 ranks +6 dex +3 class skill is +21.
With the above, Acrobatics to jump ends up being (+21+12+20+8) +61
With the above, Fly ends up being (+21+6+6) +33
If you can use This Just Might Work to substitute Fly for Acrobatics, that's +28 (+33-5). If you can use the bonuses for jumping, however, that changes it to +68 (+28+12+20+8).
My first example seems pretty straight forward. I'd be surprised if the example bard doesn't get a benefit from using a pole and/or a faster movement rate. My second example, however, I'm unsure of. In both cases, the character is using abilities that only add to a specific application of a skill that is being substituted.
On a side note, I assume that this character couldn't use Fly when trying to perform a Seven-League Leap that requires them to run in a straight line for a minute since the Fly spell doesn't allow you to run. I'm also assuming that the fly speed of the Fly spell wouldn't increase the Acrobatics check like an equivalent land speed. Lastly, I'm assuming that the maneuverability the character gets from the spell (good) does not give a corresponding bonus to Fly checks (instead, you get +1/2 caster level) since it isn't a "natural fly speed". Either way I don't think any of these assumptions would effect my core question.