So, in the latest part of a series in which I try to salvage my Paladin from the ACG errata, I think I've hit on a plan that will capture the original concept I was going for, while adding some new tricks.
Keep in mind that the first two levels are locked in. He's at 3.2 right now from GM credit, so 3rd level on can be changed.
Human Paladin of Shelyn/Brawler/Swashbuckler
17/13/12/7/12/16
Traits: Observant, Deft Dodger
Paladin 1: Dodge, Toughness, smite evil, detect evil
Paladin 2: divine grace, lay on hands
Swashbuckler 1: Swashbuckler's Finesse, panache (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), Additional Traits (Fate's Favored, ???)
Brawler 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, martial flexibility 3/day
Brawler 2: Shield Focus, Improved Shield Bash, martial flex 4/day, brawler's flurry
Paladin 3: mercy, divine health
Paladin 4: Shield Slam, smite evil 2/day
I haven't decided where to go from there, but the basic concept is a tank in heavy armor (I already have +1 full plate), with a spiked heavy shield for defense and offense. As a worshipper of Shelyn, I can cast divine favor and wait to parry/riposte with my spiked shield rather than strike first, and the spiked shield is also a close group weapon, so I can flurry with it with my Brawler levels.
I'm not sure what other trait to pick up with Additional Traits. Maybe something for +1 Will, since that save will fall behind with multiclassing. There are a couple of good Shelyn-specific traits also, for either +2 vs. charms and compulsions, or a 1/day +4 to one of several skills, including Diplomacy.
EDIT: I could do Snake Style for piercing unarmed strikes, which would fit the "peaceful unarmed Shelynite" look better, but that would mean a competition for my neck slot, which would slow down my AC game. I'm wondering if it's worth it.
Any other ideas for tweaking this build?
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This... Well, This is interesting to say the least.
I would say swashbuckler, for just one level dip its not worth it. I would say go:
Paladin 1
Paladin 2
Monk (Zen Archer) 1
Monk (Zen Archer( 2
Paladin 3
Monk Zen (Archer) 3
Paladin 4
You could go ranged Paladin and the stat synergy and theme work well together. Smite at a distance and flurry of arrows are a nice combo
I know its not what you wanted but this does work pretty well, especially since you don't have to focus so much on armor, with Dex and Wis armor from monk and bracers of armor... you're rocking a pretty high AC to start. Along with the feat Word of healing or some sort to use 2 uses of lay on hands to use it at a distance... you're a better ranger than a ranger because of smite... its a killer build
What part of my post clued you in that I wanted a ranged build? Was it my 13 Dex? Or perhaps my complete lack of ranged feats?
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What part of my post clued you in that I wanted a ranged build? Was it my 13 Dex? Or perhaps my complete lack of ranged feats?
To be honest, I didn't see your stat array... Also I was just throwing out ideas since you never stated the feats you had. But My Bad!
But still avoid swashbuckler... I would say go one Fighter and take... what was it, shield mastery, since fighter and brawler levels stack for feats
Instead of Snake Style, you could go Crane Style. Since your main weapon is a spiked shield, you have a hand free for Crane Wing. This would give you a huge boost to AC, and give you another riposte. The current version of Crane Style isn't bad.
If I'm reading it right, Crane Wing boosts melee AC by 4 on top of the bonus for fighting defensively? That's... ridiculous. I'm a bit worried about the attack penalty, especially when it comes to parrying, because I really want the riposte for extra attacks. But for a +8 to AC...
The other thing to consider is that Snake Style would be tremendous for dodging rays, for which even the Crane Style chain only boosts my touch AC to mediocre levels. But it's definitely on the table.
Ok, so here's a Crane Style version.
Human Paladin of Shelyn/Brawler/Swashbuckler
17/13/12/7/12/16
Traits: Observant, Deft Dodger
Paladin 1: Dodge, Toughness, smite evil, detect evil
Paladin 2: divine grace, lay on hands
Swashbuckler 1: Swashbuckler's Finesse, panache (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), Additional Traits (Fate's Favored, ???)
Brawler 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, martial flexibility 3/day, +1 Str
Brawler 2: Crane Style, Improved Shield Bash, martial flex 4/day, brawler's flurry
Paladin 3: mercy, divine health
Paladin 4: Crane Wing, smite evil 2/day
Paladin 5: divine bond, +1 Dex
Paladin 6: Crane Riposte, mercy
Paladin 7: smite evil 3/day
Paladin 8: Combat Reflexes
It's a bit slow to get everything together, but I can use Martial Flexibilty to keep ahead of the curve, and maybe either retrain Toughness or drop Additional Traits. Or maybe take a level dip into fighter, or something else that gets a bonus feat. Thoughts?
Bumping this, because the Outslug Style chain (from the new Weapon Master's Handbook) looks like the kind of thing I want for this build.
Human Paladin of Shelyn/Brawler/Swashbuckler/Fighter
17/13/12/7/12/16
Traits: Observant, Deft Dodger
Paladin 1: Dodge, Toughness, smite evil, detect evil
Paladin 2: divine grace, lay on hands
Swashbuckler 1: panache (derring-do, dodging panache, opportune parry and riposte), Additional Traits (Fate's Favored, Shield Bearer), retrain Toughness -> Improved Shield Bash
Brawler 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, martial flexibility 3/day, +1 Str
Brawler 2: Weapon Focus (heavy shield), Outslug Style, martial flex 4/day, brawler's flurry
Fighter (armor master) 1: Lunge
Fighter 2: Outslug Weave, Weapon Specialization (heavy shield)
Paladin 3: mercy, divine health, +1 Dex
Paladin 4: Outslug Sprint, smite evil 2/day
Paladin 5: divine bond
Paladin 6: Shield Slam
Outslug Style boosts my AC and damage by 1 (increased to 2 with Outslug Weave) for every round that I 5-foot-step, and Outslug Weave lets me Lunge with no penalty. I just discovered the Shield Bearer trait, which will boost my damage a bit, and I can always use martial flexibility to pick up Power Attack if I think I need it.
Thoughts?
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Looks good. Speaking of the weapon master's handbook, I also really like the weapon and shield weapon tricks if you can fit in the weapon trick feat. Of course you would also need to add feinting feats and dodge to really benefit from them, so it may not fit this character.
You could also retrain your paladin levels into Tempered Champion. Sacred Weapon damage and specialization makes up for the lack of Fate's Favored. Although you would also need to change your deity to Mazludeh for the favored weapon (heavy shield).
Looks good. Speaking of the weapon master's handbook, I also really like the weapon and shield weapon tricks if you can fit in the weapon trick feat. Of course you would also need to add feinting feats and dodge to really benefit from them, so it may not fit this character.
You could also retrain your paladin levels into Tempered Champion. Sacred Weapon damage and specialization makes up for the lack of Fate's Favored. Although you would also need to change your deity to Mazludeh for the favored weapon (heavy shield).
I looked at the weapon and shield tricks, but there's nothing there I really want. I would have loved to use the one-handed weapon tricks, especially Mindful Dodge and Stylish Riposte, but they have that stupid armor restriction.
I looked at Tempered Champion too, but I'm not interested in changing deities. Being a paladin of Shelyn is central to the roleplay aspect of this character.
Any reson why Daring Champion cavalier doesn't work for this? You could totally RP that as a cavalier of Shelyn if you wanted to.
Any reson why Daring Champion cavalier doesn't work for this? You could totally RP that as a cavalier of Shelyn if you wanted to.
Mainly because it was errata'd to lose Opportune Parry and Riposte, which I really want.
Bumping this mainly just to get my new version written down where I can find it. This one uses Snake Style and Outslug Style together:
Human Paladin of Shelyn/Monk (MoMS/Sacred Mountain)/Brawler/Fighter
17/13/12/7/12/16
Traits: Observant, Deft Dodger
Paladin 1: Dodge, Toughness, smite evil, detect evil
Paladin 2: divine grace, lay on hands
Monk 1: IUS, Outslug Style, Weapon Focus (unarmed), fuse styles
Brawler 1: martial flexibility 3/day, brawler's cunning
Brawler 2: brawler's flurry, Lunge, Outslug Weave
Monk 2: Snake Style, Toughness (retrain level 1 Toughness -> Additional Traits [Fate's Favored, Quain Martial Artist?)
Fighter 1: Power Attack, Snake Sidewind
Fighter 2: Weapon Specialization (unarmed)
Paladin 3: Snake Fang