How to combine Swashbuckler, Mysterious stranger and Sleuth?

[Natural 1s]

Hi guys,

could you please help me to combine Swashbuckler, Mysterious Stranger and Sleuth.

Basic idea is charismatic and lucky swashbuckler. In combat preferably gun in one hand and some cool melee weapon in the other one.

So maybe Picaroon (Swashbuckler archetype) as main class and Mysterious stranger with Sleuth only for dipping to get maximum "heroic pool".

[Vanlo Dariav]

FLlite & I discussed this concept on this thread:

Build path for Ifrit Mysterius Stranger / Piccaroon / Slueth [PFS}

In the end I did build something similar. A half-elf with 1 level of Inspired Blade Swash, then Sleuth for 4 levels, then back to Swash. I've enjoyed playing her.

But be very mindful of the easily missed one-word change in the ACG errata. If you have both Luck & Panache pools, you do NOT get double Charisma in your pool. You can still use any recharge method available to you. So I can recharge my pool on crits with the rapier, and knowledge, inspiration, etc. from Sleuth. You could still combo Charisma Panache with Wisdom from a Grit pool. But no double Cha, sorry.

[Natural 1s]

-Thanks Vanlo for the link.

Swashbuckler Panache should stack with Sleuth Luck.

D20PFSRD wrote:

(Those who use panache and luck gain twice their Charisma bonus in their pool.)

So far I am thinking about two ways with the same start:

first 8 levels:

Halfling with alternate racial trait: Fleet footed.

We are playing Standart Fantasy so his abilities will be: Str 9-1, Dex 16+3, Con 10+0, Int 12+1, Wis 12+1, Cha 16+3.

I plan to maximize Dexterity (levelling and belts and manuals).

Heroic pool will be based on charisma (Sleuth and Inspired Blade), wisdom (Gunslinger) and inteligence (Inspired Blade).
I want to pump them with Headbands (+2 charisma at 6th level, then +2 all mental abilities at 10th level, continue with +6 charisma at 13th level and finally +4 and +6 to all mental abilities at 15th and 18th level) – so I will get double (charisma) or quadruple (all mental abilities) bonus points to heroic pool.

1st level Swaschbuckler – Inspired Blade.
2nd level Investigator – Sleuth archetype.
3rd level Gunslinger – Bolt Ace.
4th to 8th level Swashbuckler – Inspired Blade archetype. This is basically to get Improved critical with Rapier so I can also recharge heroic pool more often / easily.

Then I can either:

continue with Swashbuckler – Inspired blade archetype:

to get access to some cool deeds as
Evasive (Uncanny Dodge, Improved Uncanny Dodge and Evasion for free),
Dizzying Defense (Fighting Defesively as swift action after attacking in my turn)
or Perfect Thrust (to get over Damage Reduction – even blunt type...).

or I can get another 4 level of Gunslinger – Bolt Ace archetype:

to add Dexterity modifier to damage (and increase the critical hit multiplier) – Crossbow Training
and be able to shoot over my allies like with Improved Precise Shot for one heroic point – Shooter's Resolve.

And after that continue with Swashbuckler – Inspired blade archetype.

What way should I take?

[Vanlo Dariav]

A few thoughts here. Is this for PFS? Cause if so, triple-classing before you retire at 12th level can really dilute class abilities. Just asking.

Second, while I greatly appreciate everything that John has done creating and maintaining d20pfsrd, it is not an official source and is not maintained by Paizo as such. True, we do all tend to rely on it, but ultimately only the books/pdfs count as official.

To that end, please check out page 4 of the ACG Errata. In the left-hand column, second bullet (referencing Page 102 of the ACG), the third sentence states: "In the sidebar, in the parenthetical third sentence, add "do not" before "gain twice."

(Okay, my previous post said it was a "one-word" change. It's actually a two-word change.)

The sidebar that change refers to is the "Grit, Luck, and Panache" sidebar in the Sleuth archetype and as is represented on d20pfsrd's Sleuth page. However, oddly, in the actual ACG, on page 56, in the Swashbuckler section, the sidebar there only refers to "Grit and Panache." Whereas on d20pfsrd, the sidebar that John put on the Swashbuckler page is not the same sidebar as is on the actual Swashbuckler ACG book page. Why the difference in sidebars? Who knows. Another example of the poor editing that led to a 9 page errata.

Either way, you don't get double Charisma from Luck and Panache.

[Vanlo Dariav]

My build ended up as:

Half Elf principally for the Multi-talented racial trait.
Anatomist and Clever Wordplay as traits.

20 point build: Str 7, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 12

1: Swashbuckler Inspired Blade
1: Fencing Grace
2 thru 5: Sleuth
3: Combat Reflexes
4: Investigator Talent: Expanded Inspiration
5: Extra Talent (Quick Study)

Panache/Luck Pool is 4 (Cha + Int)
Inspiration Pool = 5 (Int + 1/2 Sleuth level)
After 4 levels of Elf FCB, the Inspiration rolls get +1. She's applying Inspiration on Kn's, Linguistics, Spellcraft, Diplomacy, Heal, Sense Motive, and PERCEPTION without using any points from the Inspiration pool. Any roll of 5 or 6 (due to the +1) refreshes the Panache/Luck pool (there's a thread about this - it's unclear.)

At Sleuth 4 she got Studied Combat and Studied Strike, which I combo with Quick Study.

At 6th she'll go back to Swashbuckler. Wisdom of 10 makes taking Gunslinger pointless for her. No real ranged capability, but you gotta sacrifice something.

She's a bit MAD as it is between Dex, Cha and Int. I went with the higher Int because it boosts both the Inspiration and Panache pools, as opposed to Cha which only affects one of those pools.

[Natural 1s]

Vanlo, thank you for explanation. No double charisma modifier.
I have reported that mistake to John Reyst.

I will still use the concept of charisma + intelligence + wisdom + headbands bonuses to increase heroic pool.

I will probably take the second way: after 5 levels of Swaschbuckler / Inspired Blade, I will complete 5 levels of Gunslinger / Bolt Ace.