hey one of my PCs wants to try and steal a potion from an npc and smash it into their face on the same turn.
is this possible?
what rules or feats are used?
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Disarm
You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack. If you do not have the Improved Disarm feat, or a similar ability, attempting to disarm a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Attempting to disarm a foe while unarmed imposes a –4 penalty on the attack.If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands). If your attack fails by 10 or more, you drop the weapon that you were using to attempt the disarm. If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
If you have a natural attack or are using unarmed strikes, and they provoke by drinking the potion next to you, you can respond with a disarm combat maneuver. While not technically in the same turn, you could then smash it in your face as soon as your initiative comes up for probably a d3 or so of damage.
Another option is a Maneuver Master Monk. When they make a full-attack, they also get an extra combat maneuver. So start your full attack with an extra disarm (assuming your opponent is just holding the potion and has not yet gotten a chance to drink it) (with no weapon, obviously), and then as your attack in your full action smash it in their face.
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I believe you would use a Disarm Combat Manouvre, and then make an attack with the potion as an improvised weapon (you're not proficient, take a -4 penalty to attack, and the damage is determined by comparing the size to similar weapons as described in the Improvised Weapon rules).
But not in the same turn as I described above.
It depends on if the NPC is holding the potion or not. If he is holding the potion, then the above are correct and you need to make a disarm maneuver. Improved disarm and related feats help with that.
If the NPC has the potion visibly on his person but is not holding it, you would make a steal maneuver. There are also improved steal feats and the like to help with that.
Either way, it is an improvised weapon and would take such penalties. Also, doing it in the same turn would be fairly difficult because both maneuvers are typically standard actions, although if your BaB is high enough you can simply replace one attack with a disarm attempt (but not a steal attempt).
I would probably rule that it does 1d3 slashing damage from the broken glass and you take half that damage for your hand being cut up, but that is purely a house rule based on my personal intuition and not supported by RAW anywhere. Plus there might be effects based on what the potion is (or possibly not if its an actually potion that requires swallowing to function).
If it's in-hand, disarm will work using an unarmed attack (it explicitly says "item" repeatedly in the disarm rules). You'll probably provoke unless you have both improved disarm and improved unarmed attack. If you have iteratives, you can then attack with the potion as an improvised weapon.
If it's on their person but not in-hand, you'll need to use a steal action. That's a standard action so you'll need to wait until the next round to attack with it.
I believe you would use a Disarm Combat Manouvre, and then make an attack with the potion as an improvised weapon (you're not proficient, take a -4 penalty to attack, and the damage is determined by comparing the size to similar weapons as described in the Improvised Weapon rules).But not in the same turn as I described above.
Disarm takes the place of a melee attack. So, if you're using a full attack with either iterative attacks or two-weapon fighting with unarmed attacks, you can in the same full-round action.
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If the NPC has the potion visibly on his person but is not holding it, you would make a steal maneuver. There are also improved steal feats and the like to help with that.
I didn't mention that because I assumed people don't walk around with fragile potions tacked on to the front of their armor..
Disarm takes the place of a melee attack. So, if you're using a full attack with either iterative attacks or two-weapon fighting with unarmed attacks, you can in the same full-round action.I believe you would use a Disarm Combat Manouvre, and then make an attack with the potion as an improvised weapon (you're not proficient, take a -4 penalty to attack, and the damage is determined by comparing the size to similar weapons as described in the Improvised Weapon rules).But not in the same turn as I described above.
That's true. So the main difference between doing it as a maneuver master is you still get all of your iterative attacks because the MM gets a combat maneuver for free. I was originally writing it with steal but then realized I had the wrong maneuver in place.
It is certainly rare to have potions just strapped to your belt or something, but I've seen a few alchemists do it to save actions. But I digress: possibly a steal maneuver, more likely a disarm.
Also, if you are wanting to do this out of combat, you could make a sleight of hand check to take it from him. I believe there are rogue talents that reduce the action required, but I'm not sure.
hey one of my PCs wants to try and steal a potion from an npc and smash it into their face on the same turn.
is this possible?
what rules or feats are used?
It'd be very difficult to manage, as it's very unheard of, and can't really be done with the mechanics.
A Disarm Maneuver is used in place of an attack. Since the only way you can get more than 1 attack is with using the Full Attack Action (a Full-Round Action to perform), or by getting the Pounce ability, allowing you to Full Attack when you Charge, it's not really doable with the Readied Action that would be required to perform it as they draw out the Potion.
But, an unarmed Disarm attempt allows you to pilfer the item they may possess in their hand, which may be a potion, and if you have an extra attack, you may use the potion as a Light Improvised Weapon, dealing ~1D6 damage plus Strength. However, these conditions must be met to do so:
-Must be able to perform more than one attack
-Must be able to perform when the enemy has a potion in their hand; which usually requires a Readied Action to do so.
I would also recommend getting Improved Disarm and Improved Unarmed Strike. Monks would be great at getting these the fastest.
Another thing to note is that if they try to drink the potion, they provoke an Attack of Opportunity. You could use a Readied Action to smash the potion in their face if your Disarm attempt succeeds, but some GMs may require that you must be able to perform the activity when you take the Readied Action (meaning you can't ready an attack with a Potion when you don't have one in your hand). YMMV on that matter.
Quick Stealwill allow you to steal and attack in the same turn.
Steal necessarily has a lot more than average GM discretion attached for a combat manoeuver, so talk it over with your GM first.
The Steal combat maneuver would also work if you want to steal the potion off of their person (if they're not holding it).
It would then be a separate Improvised Weapon Attack to smash it over their head.
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It's reasonable for GM to improvise in these cases where player wishes to do something not covered completely by the rules themselves. People already suggested a lot of maneuvers, but here is what I would do if player asked me the same question:
- CMB check to take the potion away
- Attack roll with -4 penalty to hit (improvised weapon) person with the potion (1 damage dealt in the process and potion is wasted whether attack was hit or miss)
Adam