The Elemental Annihilator seems to be a fighter that uses a modified form of Kinetic Blast (Devastating Infusion) as their weapons (ranged and melee).
They get Good base attack rather than Medium with their Devastating Infusion (which can only be a physical blast, not an elemental blast, so it targets regular AC instead of Touch AC)
Their damage is 1d8+CON and doesn't get better.
They get bonus combat feats that they don't have to qualify for like Specialization and Two-Weapon Fighting.
They can use Vital Strike with their Devastating Infusion.
They can us Rapid Shot with their ranged Devastating Infusion.
At 4th level they can make attacks of opportunity with their Devastating Infusion (to make melee attacks).
They get fighter Weapon Training with their Devastating Infusion.
They can make regular iterate attacks with their Devastating Infusion and benefit from Haste.
Now for the questions:
1 - Since you can make attacks of opportunities with the Devastating Infusion at level 4 (meaning it is "always present"), could you take the Snap Shot tree of feats for the ranged Devastating Infusion? Granted the first feat would do nothing for you since you already threaten within 5' and your melee and ranged attack deal the same damage, but with Improved Snap Shot, could you threaten within 15' with your ranged Devastating Infusion?
2 - Can you take feats with a base attack requirement = to your level (as if you were a fighter) since your base attack with Devastating Infusion is = to your level, or do you have to abide by your actual base attack for feat requirements? (for feats that aren't taken as bonus feats where you don't have to meet requirements).
3 - Because the Devastating Infusion is physical (affected by DR) can you take Clustered Shots for ranged Devastating Infusion?
4 - Since you can take Specialization, you can qualify for Point Blank Master to not draw attacks of opportunities when shooting ranged Devastating Infusions. Could you then take Opening Volley and use your first attack as a ranged attack, giving your second attack (melee) a +4 bonus to hit (after you have iterate attacks of course)?
5 - Devastating Infusion states that the damage bonus from Elemental Overflow doesn't apply to Devastating Infusion, but it doesn't say anything about the bonus to hit. Does that still apply to Devastation Infusions?
1- Nope, this appear to be more of a flurry thing, where it is treated as full BAB "For this attack". That is most likely part of the reason why you are given those bonus feats- it lets you skip the prerequisite since you wouldn't really keep up otherwise.
4- you don't take AoOs for firing your ranged weapon, but you are still using an SLA, so you take 1 AoO. That does reduce your problems, since it seems to allow 2 AoOs when you blast (one for casting an SLA, one for shooting it)
There is a reason why kinetic blade goes a long way to explain why it doesn't draw AoOs.
But if you can do as you plan, it seems like you are still in for a world of pain. Can't this archetype get the whip infusion? Can you use that to get far, far less pain, since you could fire out of a lot of enemies' threatened space?
1- Nope, this appear to be more of a flurry thing, where it is treated as full BAB "For this attack". That is most likely part of the reason why you are given those bonus feats- it lets you skip the prerequisite since you wouldn't really keep up otherwise.
4- you don't take AoOs for firing your ranged weapon, but you are still using an SLA, so you take 1 AoO. That does reduce your problems, since it seems to allow 2 AoOs when you blast (one for casting an SLA, one for shooting it)
There is a reason why kinetic blade goes a long way to explain why it doesn't draw AoOs.
But if you can do as you plan, it seems like you are still in for a world of pain. Can't this archetype get the whip infusion? Can you use that to get far, far less pain, since you could fire out of a lot of enemies' threatened space?
Thanks for replying, but it doesn't look like you matched the number to the question you were answering. #1 was the Attack of Opportunity and Snap Shot question. I think you were trying to answer #2? In which case, it states that you get Good base attack when using the Devastating Infusion, not when you use a certain type of action (like Flurry only when using a full attack action).
As for #4, I didn't find anywhere in the Kineticist (or blast) section that states you have to "cast defensively", just that it is a ranged attack. So it would only draw the AoO for shooting it, which could be mitigated by Point Blank Master, right? (would really like verification on the casting defensively thing). Also, Devastating Infusion ISN'T Kinetic Blade, it acts like it in some ways but it is spelled out that it is NOT Kinetic Blade.
I had also thought of something else on the painfully long drive home from work.
6 - Level 7, Kineticist can choose another element with "Expanded Element", however if they choose the same element they started with, they get an additional Utility Wild Talent (or Infusion), and the other simple blast (if there is one). Because of Devastating Infusion, you couldn't use "the other" blast since it would be an energy blast (with DI anyway, see below), but this would be the only way to gain a Wild Talent right? Since you give up all your other ones for Bonus Feats?
7 - (related to lemeres' reply about whip infusion) It doesn't look like Elemental Annihilators give up Kinetic Blast. Does that mean that they can use Kinetic Blast (at Medium base attack, but full damage) OR Devastating Infusion (at Good base attack, 1d8+CON damage)? And use the infusions they can start choosing at 11 for Kinetic Blast?
|
Provoking AoO is a general property of spell-like abilities. It works like casting a spell. Kinetic Blade and the melee Devastating Infusion specify that you don't take AoO, but the ranged Devastating Infusion doesn't, so it'll provoke the normal 2 AoO for using a SLA with a ranged attack roll.
1 - I think that works.
2 - No, as lemeres said you only have full BAB for that specific attack.
3 - Yes.
4 - You can get the bonus, but you do need to blast defensively on the ranged attack.
5 - To-hit bonus applies.
6 - The archetype says that they can never gain utility talents. I would assume that includes gaining such talents through expanded element or the extra talent feat in addition to those gained through normal advancement.
7. Yes.
Yeah, probably messed up numbering there.
Anyway
2- It does seem to be a flurry thing, since it says 'for this attack' before going on about how it treats BAB as kine. level. The specific action would be a devastating blast.
7- Annihilators can also grab the level 7 infusion if they specialize in their element. So you do get a small handful of infusions to use. And yes, it would appear that they can use the normal blast, which is useful, since it keeps normal infusions and damage dice. A nice use of a standard action, basically. So it seems to be....level 7, 11, and 15? That sounds about right?
Overall, it looks like you get enough to grab the whip and maybe...one good blast combo (such as deadly earth/grappling for deadly spikes or frag/entangling). Although that might be limited by the need for the rare metal infusion (since you tend to use a lot of smaller attacks, DR affects you more than normal kine.s)
6- I don't think you can get utility wild talents with the 7th level infusion as an annihilator. The dampened versatility says 'you can never get utility wild talents'. So that would preclude the normal expanded element rules.
4- I think you might need to cast defensively, since the wild talents section says that the abilities (the blasts, the infusions, the utility ones) are spell like abilities (and a few supernatural ones; probably from existing abilities like earth glide and tremor sense). So it would fall under normal SLA rules after that.
2- It does seem to be a flurry thing, since it says 'for this attack' before going on about how it treats BAB as kine. level. The specific action would be a devastating blast.
I see what you mean, but it isn't an "action" for Devastating Infusion, it is the attack (weapon) that gets the Good BAB. Kind of potato / potato thing really though since BAB ONLY for a specific weapon still wouldn't meet BAB prerequisites (even if they are only for that weapon).
7- Annihilators can also grab the level 7 infusion if they specialize in their element. So you do get a small handful of infusions to use. And yes, it would appear that they can use the normal blast, which is useful, since it keeps normal infusions and damage dice. A nice use of a standard action, basically. So it seems to be....level 7, 11, and 15? That sounds about right?
Looks like 7 (if you choose same element), 11, 13, 15 (if "same bonuses as above" means bonus infusion for choosing same element), 17, and 19.
6- I don't think you can get utility wild talents with the 7th level infusion as an annihilator. The dampened versatility says 'you can never get utility wild talents'. So that would preclude the normal expanded element rules.
I missed that top line about NEVER gaining them, was only thinking you didn't get any of the ones you normally get for leveling since it states that "This ability replaces the 2nd-, 8th-, 10th-, 14th-, and 18th-level utility wild talents." which doesn't list the level 7 (and maybe 15) possibility.
Thanks guys. Still not sure what route to go with my new character, but Elemental Annihilator still sounds like it could work.
|
To be honest the lack of scaling damage is crippling. Not sure what happened with this archetype. It sacrifices the flexibility of the ordinary kineticist in exchange for bonus feats. But in the end, the fact that it can't increase weapon damage, and unlike a fighter can't even wield magick weapons, seems to kill it.
Had it had scaling damage, while that would make it considerably superior in damage output to a normal kineticist (which it should be) it still would not be in a different league to an optimised gunslinger or zen archer, so I think caution here has made the archetype less than useful unless I am missing something.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Don't worry, the math on the annihilator as-is works out to considerably more damage than the regular kineticist. Even when compared to a fighter, blast training keeps pace with weapon training and elemental overflow's accuracy boost can meet or exceed weapon enhancement bonuses (without paying gold for it), before the size bonuses. It looks weird at first because the normal kineticist gets a pile of d6s and can even empower, but the sheer number of static bonuses an annihilator can pull off in a full attack more than makes up for it.
|
|
Don't worry, the math on the annihilator as-is works out to considerably more damage than the regular kineticist. Even when compared to a fighter, blast training keeps pace with weapon training and elemental overflow's accuracy boost can meet or exceed weapon enhancement bonuses (without paying gold for it), before the size bonuses. It looks weird at first because the normal kineticist gets a pile of d6s and can even empower, but the sheer number of static bonuses an annihilator can pull off in a full attack more than makes up for it.
I'm glad you spelled this out, because I have spent weeks looking at this archetype with a puzzled expression on my face, wondering why the "Damage, damage, damage" archetype seemed to deal significantly less damage than the base class.
I guess I'll have to make one to see for myself how strong I can make it.
What i want to know is how can you enchant your devastating infusion...? Does mighty fists affect it? How about kinetic blade/whip? Greater magic weapon spell?
For the Devastating Infusion, there appears to be no way to enchant it. However, you still gain your bonuses to attack from Elemental Overflow, which scale as fast or faster than standard weapon enhancement bonuses to attack, plus Blast Training to attack and damage in the same vein as a Fighter's Weapon Training ability. You can also pair a Devastating Infusion with a Substance Infusion, which while it normally won't let you add extra damage will instead grant some utility like tripping on every attack.
Because Devastating Infusion is a Form Infusion, you cannot pair it with Kinetic Whip for extra reach, though once you hit 6th level you may make a ranged full-attack with your Flurry of Devastation using a lot of the archery feats to aid in your attack.
This doesn't preclude you from picking up Kinetic Whip, but you won't be able to use it as a Devastating Infusion rider. You may still use the Whip with the standard 3/4 BAB Kinetic Blast and gain your full standard Blast damage with it.