Dastardly Dirt Fighter advice

[Darche Schneider]

Currently working on a character for mostly fun, possibly to replace a character depending on the GM, and how encounters play out with them.

That character is the Dastardly Dirty Fighter

This guy is suppose to be able to take on the aspects of all those roguish sword wielding scoundrels we've see in shows, were in the end, its not about honor or prestige, but winning.

What I want is for the character to be able to take on the idea of using weapons and equipment that allow him a sort of multi-dimensional fighter, so I picked up Martial Master to allow me to easily acquire feats I'd need at a drop of a hat.

Lore warden buffs up all my CMB attacks, allowing me a rather large amount of room in that area. Dirty fighter even allows me the ability to buff that even more, granting me the ability to perform any CM on an enemy if they're flanked without provoking. Or giving me a +2 to the maneuver.

[Castilonium]

Dirty Fighter archetype if you're willing to be a half orc

Or you could be a vanilla brawler and get the new Kitsune Style feats from Dirty Tactics Toolbox.

[Athaleon]

You could use Bounty Hunter Slayer, which can use a Dirty Trick combat maneuver in place of gaining Sneak Attack damage (the weapon attack still hits for normal damage).

Also, the Dirty Tactics Toolbox just came out, and might have some good options for you.

[Darche Schneider]

Just using dirty trick isn't really enough to be a dirty fighter i think.

The problem with Dirty fighter archetype there, and its the same problem with being cad, is you won't be able to use the martial Master archetype, which would allow me to rapidly adapt to the situation at hand, developing the dirty tactics on the fly to fit the situation.

Dirty-tactics toolbox + Martial flexibility, then I could have a favored enemy, for any enemy i meet

[ChainsawSam]

Lore Warden/Marital Master can be a pretty potent combination. The hard part is going to be waiting on Martial Master to start paying off (and sitting out how depressing Lore Warden 2 is when you no longer need or want Combat Expertise).

Still, you're looking at being able to do a lot of fun things with maneuvers and actually having the feats to make use of a few of them.

I'd heartily recommend starting out with Dirty Trick. It's the most fun maneuver as it tends to require some sort of justification or description of the action. It's the maneuver most likely to get you into the 'shtick' of being a dirty fighting scoundrel. The Greater and Quick versions are worth taking and justify their cost in my opinion.

Trip is also pretty useful, and by the time it's Greaterized you're making up for the lost attack performing the maneuver (also bonus attacks of opportunity, think about picking up the stomp as well, that's dirty).

I like Grapple. Grapple defeats mages and there's technically no limit to how big of an enemy you can grapple (there is a limit to what you can pin). With the advent of Grabbing Style (just the first one, screw the rest) I double-love Grapple. Adequately grab an enemy with just one hand and then hack away to your heart's content with your sword.

Where Grapple really gets fun is as fodder for Maneuver Master. There are a ton of neat but situational feats attached to the Grapple lineup. There's a load of cool things you can do with Grapple, but they're all chopped up and spread out to this ridiculous 16 feat Tree, much easier to just pick up the core and grab the others with Martial Flex

Body Shield - When grappling an opponent and faced with an incoming attack, you can make a grapple check against your grappled foe. If successful, you gain cover (+4 AC) against the incoming attack. If the attack misses you because of the cover bonus, the attack hits the grappled foe instead. It's like Crane Wing's abusive older brother.

Chokehold - Allows you to pin an opponent one size larger. Not really worth taking as a permanent feat, but a neat situational pickup.

Deadly Grappler - Another feat too hit or miss to merit a full time slot on the character sheet, but nifty to pick up since you'll have the prereqs. While grappled, you can make your attacks against the grappler as if your weapon were one size larger.

Jawbreaker - Neat, but requires stunning fist. Silence and bleed someone you've grappled. Grapple is already a pretty good caster-killer, this seals the deal against particularly squirmy or tough casters. This one can be useful, but I don't know if I'd pick up Stunning Fist for it. Probably wait until Martial Flex allows you to grab 2 feats at a time and go from there.

Disarm can also be fun, it's certainly smarmy to take the badguy's weapon away from him. Bonus if you turn it against him. I don't really approve of Greater Disarm. Knocking the weapon to some arbitrary square isn't as cool as taking it with your offhand. Disarm Directed is neat, but I'm not sure if it's worth the bother most of the time. Hold the Blade is likewise thematic, but situational, and you can pick it up with just Improved Disarm if it tickles your fancy.

Sunder.... eh. It's useful (would be more useful if you were a Dwarf who could eventually take Shatterspell), but it's not like Grapple where it's worth the investment to open up a bunch of cool Martial Flex options.

Steal is great when it's needed but good situations for it don't seem to come up too often. I'd flex it instead of taking it as a standard feat. If it were really that important that something be stolen, the Rogue ought to have done it before Combat even started right?

I don't recommend Drag or Reposition. Drag you can essentially do with Grapple. Reposition you can do just fine with Ki Throw. Bullrush is a maybe.

So that's my advice. To sum up:

Dirty Trick straight on up to Quick. It's the most fun maneuver and also the most versatile.

Grapple at least to Improved, maybe all the way to Quick depending on how you're using it. At the very least (at improved) you can piss all over a full-caster's cheerios and there isn't much they can do about it. Having higher amounts of Grapple let you ruin other people's days and the line comes with some neat tricks for Flex. Consider Grabbing Style to keep use of your weapon without penalty to the grapple.

Greater Trip (maybe Ki Throw or Vicious Stomp, at least consider them for Flex feats). Improved and Greater Trip are both very brutal maneuvers since just getting up can prompt a load of opportunity attacks from your allies.

Improved Disarm at the most. Other stuff isn't really necessary or interesting. Maybe just flex it.

Bullrush, your call. I don't use it all that often. Hypothetically there's a couple neat things you can do with Bullrush and Flex (Unseat, Spinning Throw, that improved Ki Throw thing), but I haven't gotten around to any of it.

Sunder. Flex it if you need it.

Steal. Flex it if you need it.

Drag and Reposition. Replace with Grapple dragging and Ki Throw.

Deflect Arrows. Flex it.

Catch off Guard is brilliant when it's necessary, but it's rarely necessary. I'd just Flex it.

I prefer a solid one handed weapon that I (predominantly) wield with two hands. Allows you to make solid Power Attacks for the most part, but have a hand free and still attack when needed (Grabbing Style, Deflect Arrows, etc).

This is just what I've tossed together so far for my own character. I can't really account for what kind of game you're going to be playing or with what kind of people.

Have fun.

[Darche Schneider]

Hmm..

Well some of the things we're going for so far is Martial Flexibility and Martial Mastery. The weapon in particular I'm thinking of using is the Chakarum as this affords me the heavy, light and thrown weapon groups.

One weapon I'm planning on Picking up is the Poison Sand Tube, allowing me to blast out bursts of poison.

Quick draw is a must, I need it to switch between different weapons for the proper situation. Unfortunately I don't think it works on alchemical weapons simply because they're an alchemical item, and I've been trying to figure out a way to fix that. So far nothing.

[Colbos1215]

The Underground Chemist rogue archetype lets you draw alchemical items as weapons at second level. That, plus the aforementioned Quick Draw should get you what you're looking for.

[Darche Schneider]

Yeah, too bad its part of a class that I can't easily get to without sacrificing levels in fighter.

But some things I found -

Dirty fighter is an amazingly flexible feat. Picking it up at level 1 pretty much gives you most of the main reason why you'd pick up any of the improved in the first place, that whole not getting AoO. But wait you say? You've gotta get flanking?

Worry not! Gang up ends up making positioning even easier. But wait there is more! Press to the Wall provides flanking partners even if you're all by yourself. Just gotta push them up against a wall or pillar, or lead the enemy down a narrow 5 foot wide hallway.