GM creates Artificial DCs on the spot.


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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erik542 wrote:
Honestly, there is nothing terribly wrong with making up a few DC's as long as the thing in question is supposed to be difficult and there is some foundation for it in the rules. Disable Device is a particularly grievous example. Suppose you get that +40 to your check, now what happens? By standard rules, there are no more traps. As a result, that +40 bonus is useless. By making up an inflated DC, your bonus can actually do something.

I am going to disagree here. If the +40 means the traps are gone then it has the same affect as if the traps were there. The something I get to do is avoid myself and the party being hit by traps I didn't know about.

The rules tell you to add circumstantial modifiers not make things up, and I don't mean rule 0.


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Interesting side note, have you ever tried playing without using a grid, but instead eyeballing, declaring actions then using measuring tools to determine outcome? (like warhammer).

I have considered it (for immersion not metagaming), but I decided it wasn't worth it for me.

Mainly because I've never had anybody sit there with plastic templates before in any game I've been in, or anything like that. Usually people seem to already just eyeball it and then double check (after the fact, to apply physics) like you say with a grid available, so it seems like it would be redundant for those people.

Also can't do it on roll20 for those games.

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A PC trained in magic likely doesn't think in distance, and doesn't "throw" a spell. They either reach out and touch them as naturally as their own arm (ranged touch attack), fire rays that ignore gravity and distance gauging doesn't matter, or create an area of effect where they are sculpting a spell using their spatial awareness to put the spell where they need to.

Two issues:

1) Sure you don't HAVE to plan out. If you choose to roleplay it as your guy being angry and fireballing in retribution at that other guy no matter what, then okay, obviously no templates in that case! Moot point. You're hitting him cause you're pissed off, not because he is tactically spatially optimal. It will just hit whatever other enemies and allies it hits.

2) If they ARE planning, then the major difference between what you describe vs using templates is that what you describe is done ONCE for a spell. Whereas trying out 8 template positions is now doing what you described except multiplied by DOZENS of times, mentally, instead of once, all in the same standard action, and all before he even starts casting!

A guy using a template for black tentacles is effectively saying "Hm, how about if I cast it here? Okay well that would be 15 feet to enemy A, 20 feet to enemy B, 15 feet to enemy C, and 15 feet to ally A. Oh that's no good." then the player shifts the template. "Okay that would be 15 feet to enemy A, 20 feet to enemy B, 25 feet to enemy B. Oh that's no good." "Okay how about here. 20ft to enemy A, 10ft to enemy B, 10 feet, to enemy C, 10 feet to ally A, DAMMIT" "Okay here! 20ft to enemy A, 10ft to enemy C...

This is all in 3 seconds, before even beginning to cast the spell...

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Your logic applies to attack rolls as well.

Once you've picked the target, that's your target, any decisions about spatial relationships are done with now. Any splash damage will just hit whatever it hits, etc. (as per physics)

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The player is not the character. The character has skills and knowledge not available to the player.

Agreed, the player is not the character. If the character rolls worse than the player's perception, then the player is BETTER at perception than the character is right now. Why should you get handicaps to simulate somebody who is less skilled than you?


alexd1976 wrote:
DominusMegadeus wrote:
I never understood how people play with rulers and such. It just seems like such a hassle when you could apply the grid.

Some people have huge warhammer tables already set up, complete with scenery and everything.

It can be REALLY fun. Especially when fireball is a 20ft radius, instead of a weird blocky pattern.

I've done it this way, it can be lots of fun.

Yeah, a lot of my Pathfinder/RPG groups were also into tabletop wargaming, so it wasn't unusual for us to play things more wargame-style instead of using a grid map. It does make for an interesting change of pace, although a few rules become a bit wonky.

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