Bestow Conditional Curse?

[kyrt-ryder]

I've heard/read in places that one could use the Bestow Curse Spell to bestow a curse which is only triggered under certain circumstances, rather than a constant effect but I'm not seeing anything in the text confirming such a claim.

Am I missing something?

[Baval]

Youre missing the part where its a very open to interpretation spell, and theres no reason they couldnt make a curse that was "you take -2 to hit if you ever drink from a purple teapot" instead of just "you take -2 to hit"

It perfectly fits the theme of the spell. its a curse after all.

In terms of actually written words: "You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above."

[kyrt-ryder]

I see, it's an open interpretation rather than a hardline reading of the spell.

Basically it's for applying layered Bestow Curse [-4 Ability Checks] and Bestow Curse [-6 Charisma] on Commanded Undead [the spell] when they refuse an order until they obey it to make it easier to push them around with Charisma Checks.

[Baval]

Sure, that would work fine. Would you agree that a -6 to charisma sometimes is the same or less powerful than a -6 to charisma always?

Just in terms of it in a void. The way hes using it is more powerful, but so is using produce flame to light a bomb.

Creative uses of game mechanics should be encouraged as long as theyre not gamebreaking.

Just make sure to have the undead be extra mad at him when he breaks free. Like pretend to be still under control and kill you when youre most vulnerable angry.

[Baval]

Oh, its worth noting that the undead gets saves against both curses and that you have to cast the control undead AFTER the curses, because casting a curse is definitely a hostile act and would break control undead. (dont tell him that, and if he doesnt realize it commence with "operation:eat em while theyre down")

[kyrt-ryder]

Technically it would not break control undead :P though it would break the Command Undead spell I mentioned in the post.

Interestingly enough though, the Command Undead feat functions as Control Undead and would make an excellent gateway into getting said undead securely Commanded.

[Cpt. Caboodle]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

I've heard/read in places that one could use the Bestow Curse Spell to bestow a curse which is only triggered under certain circumstances, rather than a constant effect but I'm not seeing anything in the text confirming such a claim.

Am I missing something?

There's a spell for that: Mark of Justice.

If you could do that with a Bestow Curse spell, Mark of Justice were useless.

[Baval]

@cpt. caboodle

Mark of justice:

Is on the Paladin spell list

Doesnt allow a saving throw

Is harder to remove (caster level must be greater than yours, no restriction for Bestow Curse)

Is less distasteful flavor wise

And finally, is not the first case of a spell thats useless in actual play. Sometimes designers make mistakes and make things that dont do anything or do something something else already does. See the original Prone Shooter for example.

[Cpt. Caboodle]

Mark of Justice is also a cleric spell.

I see it's quite tempting to view everything one doesn't like as a designer's mistake.
Mark of justice has been around for 15 years now. Don't you think that, in the various incarnations of D&D and Pathfinder, someone would have noticed and said "Oh wait, Mark of Justice makes no sense, lets drop it"? No, because it makes sense, and fills a niche that Bestow Curse doesn't.

[Baval]

If youre going to ignore everything i said, then why bother responding?

Mark of Justice is on the Cleric list, but bestow curse is not on the Paladin list, therefore thats one reason for it to exist, hence why i said it.

3 more reasons for it to exist followed.

Then i mentioned that sometimes developers make mistakes. But you only zeroed in on that.

No, you can use bestow curse for a situational effect. Theres no reason to think you couldnt, because its not more powerful than a permanent effect and the spell very clearly says "You may also invent your own curse, but it should be no more powerful than those described above."

I dont even think I need to say this, but its based off of curses from stories. Many of those curses are situational. Do you think Maleficent used Mark of Justice? Sauron? Ancient Egyptians? All of these used curses that only worked in certain situations or after a set time.

You know what else is a spell thats been around as long as Mark of Justice? Bleed. You know whats better than bleed? Literally any other level 0 damage dealing spell, because they all cause the target to resume dying PLUS put them closer to death.

Also, Bestow Curse is much much older than Mark of Justice. Like, first edition old. Mark of Justice is also not in 5th edition.

[Lifat]

Cpt. Caboodle wrote:

Mark of Justice is also a cleric spell.

I see it's quite tempting to view everything one doesn't like as a designer's mistake.
Mark of justice has been around for 15 years now. Don't you think that, in the various incarnations of D&D and Pathfinder, someone would have noticed and said "Oh wait, Mark of Justice makes no sense, lets drop it"? No, because it makes sense, and fills a niche that Bestow Curse doesn't.

Want an example of a useless spell that has been around for a long time without being errataed? Take a look at the spells Damp Powder and Weaken Powder...

Both spells are even printed in the same book. Clearly a mistake, and yet they haven't rectified it even though ultimate combat has been out for a long time. So yes I actually DO believe that they wouldn't errata a useless spell for any amount of time, which means your arguement holds no point, and you still failed to respond to all the other points about Mark of Justice not being useless even with the liberal interpretations of bestow curse.