Swashbuckler's Precise Strike


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

Hello,

I have seen many discussions around regarding how this class feature applies in different situations. I had not seen a 'definitive' answer on whether one can use an unarmed strike as an appropriate weapon (assuming you can get an unarmed strike to be piercing damage) for the bonus damage?

If the answer is 'yes' to that question then may I further use the Feral Combat Training feat to apply Precise Strike to a natural attack?

Thanks!

Grand Lodge

As for the unarmed strike part, I'm not sure. I think that yes you could make this work, assuming you make your fist count as piercing.

As for natural attacks, they are already specified to not work with precise strike. I don't think a work around where you get natural attacks to work in places where unarmed strikes work changes them from being natural attacks. So no I don't think feral combat training helps you here.

Edit: Though I like, Nefreet flagged you for movement to the rules forum

Sczarni

To best get the "definitive" answer you're looking for I took the liberty of flagging your question for the Rules Forum. It has the highest likelihood of getting the attention and discussion it needs over there, as well as the best chance for being added to the FAQ.

Good luck =)


The first question is definitively a yes. the second is a little tougher. It depends on if you take rules as being inclusive or exclusive. lets lay out the rules in question shall we?

Precise Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, while she has at least 1 panache point, a swashbuckler gains the ability to strike precisely with a light or one-handed piercing melee weapon (though not natural weapon attacks), adding her swashbuckler level to the damage dealt....

An unarmed strike is always considered a light weapon. Therefore, you can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with an unarmed strike. Unarmed strikes do not count as natural weapons (see Combat). The damage from an unarmed strike is considered weapon damage for the purposes of effects that give you a bonus on weapon damage rolls.

monks on the other hand: A monk's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Since preventing natural attacks from getting the precise strike doesn't "enhance or improve" the rules say that clause doesn't apply here. So lets go ahead and toss in a Snake style (other ways to go about it exist): You gain a +2 bonus on Sense Motive checks, and you can deal piercing damage with your unarmed strikes.

And now we have a light manufactured piercing weapon. Boom, precise strike applies. ok so now we add feral combat into the mix.

feral combat training: Choose one of your natural weapons. While using the selected natural weapon, you can apply the effects of feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, as well as effects that augment an unarmed strike.

That is a little vague. Technically precise strike can augment unarmed strikes but doesn't augment specifically unarmed strikes, so my reading of it is no. It is a bit of a grey area though so I could see it going either way.

edit: italicized quotes for readibility


Unarmed strike with Snake style: yes. Feral combat training no.

Liberty's Edge

Thanks for the great replies! :D

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