Hey everyone.
So I have a switch-hitter Elf Ranger (Beastmaster/Wild Hunter). He has the Monstrous Companion feat, and has applied it (and all 7 of his Beastmaster levels) to his Cooshee. The DM has stated the Effective Cohort Level for the Cooshee is 5, so he gets 2 class levels.
My question is: what class levels would work best? I considered going with a Tetori Monk and focus on grappling/tripping, since that's the Cooshee's normal mode of attack. I'm just worried that those methods will quickly diminish in returns as we level up (this could become a very high level game). I also considered Brutal Pugilist Barbarian or Lore Warden Fighter.
So any suggestions?
I guess I first am curious if you are 7th level Beastmaster, or count as a 7th level druid (10th level Beastmaster). That might clear up some confusion in my mind.
Beyond that: I would go for the Brutal Pugilist Barbarian (or just plain barbarian). The raging bonuses will help keep the battle effectiveness of your animal companion into later levels. You could also go Urban barbarian if you wish to continue to capitalize on the cooshe's weapon finesse and slightly higher dexterity. (Wild rager for the extra attack would be fun >.>)
Oh, sorry. I forgot to mention that the DM has houseruled that Beastmasters count their Ranger levels as Druid levels for their companion from level one (negating the level 12 ability, I know).
I considered a Dex-based barbarian. Take Agile Maneuvers to capitalize on the high Dexterity.
Thanks.
@the houserule- Okay, that makes sense.
With Weapon Finesse, you can ignore Agile Maneuvers for most of the combat maneuvers. Unless of course you GM rules differently.
We had a similar discussion with our gaming group, and we read the rules differently.
Benefit(s): You can select a magical beast as a cohort in place of your animal companion class feature. Table: Effective Cohort Level determines the effective cohort level for your monstrous companion based on your effective druid level.Table: Effective Cohort Level
Effective
Druid Level Effective
Cohort Level
7 4
8 5
9 6
10 6
11 6
12 7
13 8
14 9
15 9
16 9
17 10
18 11
19 11
20 12
If the magical beast's effective cohort level is lower than what is allowed by your effective druid level, the cohort gains class levels equal to the difference. A cohort with 1 class level gains the link and share spells abilities of an animal companion. A cohort with 3 class levels gains the evasion animal companion ability. A cohort with 6 class levels gains the devotion animal companion ability. If the class feature you use as a prerequisite for this feat does not grant one of those abilities (such as a cavalier's mount, which does not gain share spells), your monstrous mount also does not gain the ability. The magical beast does not gain any abilities not listed here.
Your effective druid level (EDL) is 7, which means your effective cohort level (ECL) is 4. Even if your ECL was 5 (meaning your EDL was 8), you still wouldn't have enough to add class levels to your cohort. Since your GM has ruled that a Cooshee has an ECL of 5, he wouldn't be available to get class levels until your EDL was high enough to allow a cohort with an ECL of more than 5 (EDL of 9 or higher).
If there's a different interpretation of this feat somewhere, we'd be interested in seeing it.
Okay, that's true. But that doesn't help me with my build question.
I was ecstatic about concept of the monstrous companion feat, but when the rules surrounding it came out I couldn't help but feel this was a pretty horrible feat with incomplete rules. For one the amount of stuff you have to sacrifice in order to get the monstrous companion is ridiculous, plus the magical beast you get is so watered down that even a regular animal companion is better. Regular animal companions already have a hard enough time surviving and be viable at later levels, I don't see how the monstrous companions you get through this feat can even survive much less do any real damage or be of any help later on. Plus can someone explain how this feat can be used to get a monstrous companion cohort like the sleipnir. With regular leadership your pc has to be at least lvl 18 in order to even qualify to recruit a sleipnir who has a effective cohort lvl of 16. The chart being used for the monstrous companion feat maxes out at cohort lvl 12 on the chart used to apply your effective druid lvl which usually equals your pc's lvl, and in order to get your cohort to lvl 12 your pc has to be lvl 20. Pretty horrible if you ask me. I say stick to regular leadership rules and just house rule you don't get the followers that come with it, and if the class feature you used to get the animal companion can be used for something else, do that instead.
The way to make it worth it is to get as low an ecl as possible so that it can have as many levels as possible.
Okay, that's true. But that doesn't help me with my build question.
I really don't know man, only you know 100% what you want your monstrous companion to do. I think the more important question would be, can it survive long enough for you do what you want it to do. For example you have to be at lvl 12 in order for your Cooshee to be at cohort lvl 7 and have a couple class lvls in it. By that time your monstrous companion is nothing more than cannon fonder and is going to get squished pretty fast.
Okay, I talked to my DM, and he relooked at the feat. Now he says the Cooshee has its 3 magical beast HD, and 2 class levels. So basically a +2 LA.
Okay, I talked to my DM, and he relooked at the feat. Now he says the Cooshee has its 3 magical beast HD, and 2 class levels. So basically a +2 LA.
Not to be a jerk, but your gm was right the first time he assigned a cohort lvl of 5 to the Cooshee, because it has similar stats to the Hippocampus mentioned in the book where you get the feat from. From the way your gm keeps changing his/her mind or house ruling as is called is not being a good dm, nice but not good. I am sorry dude, but if I were you just throw this feat out the window where it belongs and stick to either a regular animal companion or a slightly more restricted version of leadership. I have a rule of thumb, house ruling should be done on a strict basis and as a once in awhile thing. House ruling on something alot of times such as a feat in order to get it to work or to suit your needs is just making the rules up as you go, and if your going to do that you might as well make up your own feat from scratch and stop using the one your trying to patch or change so much. But again this is just my opinion and should be taken as such.
If your really wanting a neat and unique companion. I have a suggestion for you why not a dragon. It seems your dm allows third party content in your game. So why not check out the Dragon Companion Handbook. It has a section where you have can get a dragon as a mount or animal companion. It takes a couple of feats though. If I remember right your class has to have a class feature that gives an effective druid lvl of 4, you have to have 4 skill ranks in magic arcana, speak the draconic language for the first feat and this gives you a medium dragon. The second feat will make the dragon large, but you have to have 7 skill ranks in arcana by then to meet the feat's prerequisites. The dragon will advance similar to a regular animal comapion using a chart that is similar, but has some slight differences. And you can pick a dragon that is within one step of your pc's alignment. It gives you choices of metallic, chaotic, and even imperial dragons. The rules in the dragon comapion handbook are pretty straight forward and will give you an awesome comapion that will not break your game. I my self am running a paladin as my pc with a gold dragon mount called Dari.
Okay, that's true. But that doesn't help me with my build question.
I'm sorry, I was so focused on my groups discussion that I didn't realize I didn't contribute anything to the actual conversation.
If you want to focus on grappling, Tetori is nice, but Lore Warden might be better in the long run. Just don't forget to take Agile Maneuvers to take advantage of the Cooshee's dexterity. I'm still unsure if grab changes how the grapple check is rolled when the grappler has weapon finesse (str vs dex). If at your table it allows dex, then forget Agile Maneuvers :D
If you want to focus on tripping instead, Lore Warden should still work, and you won't need to take Agile Maneuvers (since the trip is part of their natural attack and it has been established that you can use Weapon Finesse with trip).
I'd also suggest talking your GM into allowing him to take the Improved/Greater maneuver feats (depending on which build) without requiring Improved Unarmed Strike, since they use their natural weapons to do them. Sure, it isn't RAW, but your GM seems like they want to work with you to get your concept together. If you can, also get Paired Opportunist, so when they trip, you both get AoOs.
It would be interesting to see how a Cooshee Urban Barbarian would work, since that could increase it's dex during a rage :) Take Raging Grappler...maybe give him an anaconda coils belt and the final embrace feat chain (and agile maneuvers, if necessary)...
Good luck and have fun!
Can I ask a question, I was reading the bestiary for the Cooshee and noticed somethings. I know if you want to use the monstrous companion feat, you go by it's bestiary entry. But as I was scrolling down I noticed it had an animal companion stat block.
Cooshee Companions (Elves and Half-Elves Only)
Starting Statistics: Size Small; Speed 40 ft., AC +2 natural armor, Attack bite (1d4 plus trip), claws (1d3); Ability Scores Str 11, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6.; Special Qualities scent
4th-Level Advancement: Size Medium; Attack bite (1d6 plus trip), claws (1d4); Ability Scores +4 Str, –2 Dex, +4 Con; Special Qualities sprint
The reason I am so against the monstrous comapion feat is when you are taking class levels into it, how r u going to improve its stats to make it viable. I mean other than the low hp problem you will have, what about it's attack and defense. Bestiary entry only gives it having 15 str and a bab 1. Even if you put 4 or 5 martial class levels into it by the time you reach lvl twelve its only going to have a bab of 5 or 6. I think you only get 2 to 3 feats regular feats. 1 stat modifier to put into it, I think you get that at class lvl 4. And other than dumping alot of money into magic items such as belts and head bands, I don't see how your going to raise it's stats. Giving it class lvls will give your cohort access to class features and bonus feats, but what good will they be when it can't even survive or scratch your opponents. Oh, when I am stating the above facts I am assuming your pc is at around lvl 12 for the sake of the argument.
But if you advance your Cooshee as a regular animal companion, by the time you get to lvl 12 it will have a bab of 7, 5 feats, 8 natural armor, and +4 to it's str and dex on top of the base stats you get from the animal comapion block. Much more viable in my opinion. And you can make your cooshee better with magical equipment on top of that. I really like that sprint ability it has, it even gets it as an animal companion. I would find ways to capitalize on that ability. I also noticed it has a trip attack too.
Whatever you choose to do man, like haremlord said, have fun.
I saw the animal companion listing as well, and it's what gave me the idea for the entire character. But my DM says that entry is a third-party thing, and wants to stick to the Paizo monstrous entry instead. So *shrug* what can you do?
While the idea of a dragon instead is appealing, I like the character I've written up so far, so I'll stick with the Cooshee. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. I think I will go with barbarian for its levels (assuming Urban Barbarian is allowed), otherwise I'll go Lore Warden. Thanks guys.
My DM thoughts:
Monstrous companion totally blows. Fiercely. A level 10 druid with Leadership and an Animal Companion has 2 effectively CR6 minions, for a combined CR8. Math: an NPC with 7 PC levels -1 for NPC equipment and an animal with 9 hit dice per monster creation table.
If the very same druid uses this dumb feat to swap for a Hippogriff with ECL 6... you get a CR2 creature. What the actual eff?
My thoughts: ignore the text on the feat and just say you can swap your Comp for a monster on the list with CR of up to your Level-2, with class levels for the remainder. That way it's literally the same as taking a cohort, but you get one buddy instead of 2. If it's unbalancing, add in CHA math or something.