| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
So I'm having trouble with the high level cleric spell list with regards to my buffing cleric?
Where are all the buffs? There's the paladin aura and holy aura and that's basically it at high levels, both of which are round/level. Where are my huge, aoe, min/hour per level buffs? Where are my one man juggernaut buffs?
The cleric spell list from 6+ becomes a bad touch cleric's wet dream, it seems like the writers just assumed everyone wanted to cast 8 versions of "kill you". But my character doesn't cast harmful magic and I'm rapidly running out of support for my build.
Then you have the symbols clogging up the list with even more NPC spells. And crap that shouldn't be a high level spell like making a POND with Oasis.
What's good are the world shaping spells that are super open ended, but then you're basically wizard-by-grace-of-god.
It feels like the buffing archetype got totally dumped in the end game in order to make bad touch/wizard clerics? The spell list feels like swiss cheese, some levels I have 10 golden spells I really want and other levels its totally barren.
None of this is helped by railroading in our current game making the great open ended cleric spells useless. Control Weather and Scrying are utterly curtailed because they have too much potential to change the game's course.
Alright now tear into me and tell me how great the cleric's list is and how I'm a spoiled full caster. Don't get me wrong I love playing my cleric, I'm just kind of struggling with the high level list and what to prepare.
EDIT: I should clarify that I'm using a Candle of Invocation to prepare some higher level spells is why round/level doesn't work so well for me.
Use Quickened versions of the lower level buffs?
There are a few things like Holy Aura, but in general I guess they expected that after a couple of buffs the Cleric would start to do their own thing either with offensive spells or combat. The idea of a renowned Cleric of high level who's got nothing but party-buffing seems a little odd to me.
"Here lies the great and renowned Buffy McHelpie, tragically slain before her time by a middling pack of Orcs because she had no allies to buff..."
Pah! You lack imagination....
Cast Nine Lives on each of you're party members.... Job done!
Greater communal spell immunity for pudding and if you're feeling greedy.... Miracle
"Oh beacon of light, giver of life, purveyor of all things pure and true, aid my allies. Grant them uber buffage!!" A +10 Divine AC and DR20 for 1 round/lvl seems reasonable....
Certainly Quicken Spell!
Extended versions of lower-level buffs?
Widened versions of lower-level buffs? (Huge AOE increase... consider how much area a widened prayer would cover. Lots of low-level AOE spells don't cover the ranges that can happen in high-level combat.)
6th level heroes' feast to start the day, find the path to get where you're going, planar ally to call in someone who can do all sorts of useful spells during the day, wind walk and word of recall for travel purposes.
7th level: control weather to make life good for your archer buddy, or bad for the sixteen hundred elves trying to shoot you. (OK, that's a stretch, and I see your GM is not letting the spell work to effect, but it is there, and ditto scrying.) Spellcasting contract to transfer some powers to friends or low-level allies so they can do useful stuff if you go down.
8th level: greater planar ally, maybe the herald of your god? Greater spell immunity if you're going up against magic-using foes (hey, most of them at this level).
9th level: greater spellcasting contract, though I'd probably just do nothing but miracle anyway.
Or invent some long-lasting buff spells of your own. Army-sized blessings, stuff that does sacred/profane bonuses instead of luck/enhancement,
Pah! You lack imagination....
Cast Nine Lives on each of you're party members.... Job done!
Greater communal spell immunity for pudding and if you're feeling greedy.... Miracle
"Oh beacon of light, giver of life, purveyor of all things pure and true, aid my allies. Grant them uber buffage!!" A +10 Divine AC and DR20 for 1 round/lvl seems reasonable....
I actually don't have access to 8th spells until next level, but Nine Lives is exactly what I'm looking for. So that helps immensely when I get there. Shame its only one target.
The game will end before I get 9th level spells, unfortunately.
I definitely f$*+ed up by not taking Quicken Spell true, I did not foresee this issue and I've never played a cleric before. Unfortunately we just leveled to 12. Still a metamagicked spell isn't the same as having actual written content for spells of that level.
Also my character is Buffy McHelpie because he follows the god of the roads and fortune, his calling is to aid travelers. I think any Buffy McHelpie is at least a little battle cleric, at least mine is. And I personally think turning your allies into a host of angels would be awesome high level cleric stuff.
Also my character is Buffy McHelpie because he follows the god of the roads and fortune, his calling is to aid travelers. I think any Buffy McHelpie is at least a little battle cleric, at least mine is. And I personally think turning your allies into a host of angels would be awesome high level cleric stuff.
Fair enough, I just like saying Buffy McHelpie. Incidentally, one very interesting spell to metamagic the crap out of is Admonishing Ray, which happens to be non-lethal. Since it's been ruled that rays are 'weapons' for purposes of spells like Divine Favor Admonishing Ray gets a buff on each ray from Favor. But the real fun is that Toppling Spell and Dazing Spell can be played off of each ray, letting you attempt to trip up to three targets (Favor buffs trip attempts too), or make three Daze attempts (GM might want to rule only one attempt/target because getting three daze shots is pretty nasty). It's not exactly buffing, but it's very helpful (and fun) to be knocking around the opposition with hefty non-lethal linebacking.
Fair enough, I just like saying Buffy McHelpie. Incidentally, one very interesting spell to metamagic the crap out of is Admonishing Ray, which happens to be non-lethal. Since it's been ruled that rays are 'weapons' for purposes of spells like Divine Favor Admonishing Ray gets a buff on each ray from Favor. But the real fun is that Toppling Spell and Dazing Spell can be played off of each ray, letting you attempt to trip up to three targets (Favor buffs trip attempts too), or make three Daze attempts (GM might want to rule only one attempt/target because getting three daze shots is pretty nasty). It's not exactly buffing, but it's very helpful (and fun) to be knocking around the opposition with hefty non-lethal linebacking.Also my character is Buffy McHelpie because he follows the god of the roads and fortune, his calling is to aid travelers. I think any Buffy McHelpie is at least a little battle cleric, at least mine is. And I personally think turning your allies into a host of angels would be awesome high level cleric stuff.
Between that ray hilarity and all these high level debuff and nukes, I might have to roll another cleric as bad touch. It'd be nice to fix what I did wrong by ignoring metamagics (and some item purchases).
Which is amusing because before this game Cleric was my least favorite class, now I adore it. I've been a little pessimistic in this thread but I do love playing cleric.
If you are looking for a Juggernaut buff at high levels, maybe consider Frightful Aspect. If you are Mythic, you can even persist it!
Between that ray hilarity and all these high level debuff and nukes, I might have to roll another cleric as bad touch. It'd be nice to fix what I did wrong by ignoring metamagics (and some item purchases).
Which is amusing because before this game Cleric was my least favorite class, now I adore it. I've been a little pessimistic in this thread but I do love playing cleric.
There are some absolutely awesome things you can do with a battle Cleric. Evangelist archetype and Glory/Heroism Domain will create a master of battle. Guided Hand done right will let you create a Cleric that's both battle and bad touch at the same time. Dipping a level of Monk potentially gets you flurry of blows - even with a deity's favored weapon with Crusader's Flurry - and if it's a level of Sohei Monk, you can still wear a mithril breastplate.
One of my favorite builds is a Storm-and-Chaos worshipping Hei-Feng Cleric that goes:
Human or Half-Elf - 14STR, 12DEX, 14CON, 10INT, 16/18WIS+, 8CHA
Martial Artist Monk 1/ Separatist of Hei-Feng
Domain: Chaos\Protean / Separatist Domain: Trickery\Deception
Traits: Fate's Favored, Magical Knack
1. +Human/Ancestral: Weapon Proficiency: 9-Ring Broadsword / Channel Smite
3. Guided Hand: 9-Ring Broadsword
5. Power Attack
7. Cornugon Stun (use stunning fist through a monk weapon)
9. Mantis Style
Weapon - "9-Crow": +1 Conductive, Cruel 9-Ring Broadsword. (Greater Magic Weapon daily).
Two-handed power attack flurry gets very decent damage with Divine Favor and 14STR (+belt or bull's strength?). Conductive weapon means Chaos Touch power can be delivered with a weapon strike. Cornugon Stun and Mantis style mean very-high-dc stunning fist through weapon. Cruel weapon means that once you have access to Aura of Doom (AoE fear), you can sicken foes with strikes. Channel Smite adds negative channel damage to strikes. Casting Instrument of Agony allows a free-action nauseated effect on strike.
Deception domain grants Mirror Image and Confusion as domain spells. Protean Domain grants Aura of Chaos power.
So you can go into battle with a double-aura of howling protean chaos and fear, swinging a sickening/stunning/roll-wrecking/negative-channeling sword in a flurry of blows, wearing a robe but defended by Wisdom AC, Dodge and Mirror Image.